Anika and Liz put buckets on their head and infiltrate a Breen ship, pausing along the way to have a serious personal conversation. We’re discussing the penultimate episode of Star Trek: Discovery (WE ARE NOT READY), “Lagrange Point”! Including…
- What sort of ending do we want for Moll?
- We already have a crush on Primarch Tahal
- Michael and Book parallel Michael and Ash in “Into the Forest I Go” – is infiltrating an enemy ship a date?
- We are briefly interrupted by an appearance from Anika’s cat’s butt
- Paul and Hugh have been sidestepping drama all season and it’s great?
- Saru: relationship role model
- We’re not NOT shipping Rayner/Tilly
Transcript
Liz: Welcome to Antimatter Pod, a Star Trek podcast where we discuss fashion, feminism, subtext, and subspace, hosted by Anika and Liz. Today, we’re discussing Star Trek: Discovery season 5, episode … 8? No.
Anika: Nine.
Liz: Oh, oh, God. Episode 9.
Anika: I’m sorry.
Liz: No, it’s just–
Anika: That’s my fault. I didn’t update it.
Liz: It’s the fault of the linear passage of time that this is our second-last episode ever of Star Trek; Discovery. And it’s called Lagrange Point, which I hilariously mispronounced last week because me and French were not friends.
Anika: It’s a thing I learned when I googled that, hoping to get the Star Trek: Discovery episodes.
Liz: Amazing. So funny story, we both forgot what happened in this episode. Not because it wasn’t good, but I had COVID and you are incredibly overworked. So let’s try and do an episode.
I feel like this is really different from most of Discovery‘s penultimate episodes, because usually they’re about putting all the pieces in place and setting up the character stuff, and resolving some things so that we can go into the conclusion with fresh hearts. And this didn’t do any of that. I feel like that was last week.
Anika: Yeah, there certainly were things that were set up and set into place for the finale, but it’s weird, because there was a lot of action in this episode, like, a lot of action in this episode, and yet it felt very much laid back almost.
Liz: It makes me wonder if the finale is going to be a more interior quiet episode, mostly taking place in the Progenitor barrel.
Anika: Progenitor barrel. When you were talking about the barrel in the chat, I was like, what does that mean? And then I watched the episode and I was like, oh, it’s a barrel. I get it. Yeah, it’s pretty silly looking.
Liz: Obviously, once it’s in the Breen shuttle bay and you see that it’s much bigger than everyone, it looks less silly, but it’s a barrel.
Anika: And I mean, I think it’s supposed to resemble the thing they were building.
Liz: Oh, oh, yes, of course.
Anika: I think they were building the barrel, but it looks, it looked cooler in small scale.
Liz: Yes. The full-sized one looks like something you want to age some whiskey in, which I would drink. I would drink the Progenitor-aged whiskey, just saying.
Anika: I would not. That sounds like something that would involve people. I’m sorry. That’s immediately where my mind went when you said Progenitor-aged.
Liz: I have regrets.
Anika: And on that note, let’s talk about what happened in this episode, because actually a lot happened in this episode.
Liz: Can I just say that I love how everyone is collaborating this episode, but also this whole season Adira gets out of their comfort zone and into an away mission, and Book and Michael go on another date, because their dates are just infiltrations.. We have the engineering trio of Jett and Adira and Paul, and we have Rhys and really everybody.
Anika: What I like about their collaboration is that they have the same full staff meetings that we have on the Enterprise and the Voyager, and they do have their little conference room, but then they also have mini staff meetings on the bridge and in engineering. It’s not like the Enterprise and the Voyager people don’t do that. Geordi has a fake conference in engineering, so it’s not like it’s weird, but Discovery, they don’t ever make decisions on their own.
Liz: Yeah, yeah, yeah.
Anika: They’re constantly collaborating, and it’s fun when, for example, Hugh sort of runs into engineering. It’s like, why are you here? You have nothing to do with engineering, but he belongs there, and it’s not because he’s like Paul’s boyfriend. It’s because he’s a member of Discovery’s crew, and that’s what they do.
Liz: Yes, and it is Star Trek tradition that the doctor spends as little time in sickbay as possible.
Anika: We wouldn’t want you to think that they were competent medical professionals.
Liz: Absolutely not. Although obviously Hugh is great. I trust him with my life.
Anyway, I also enjoyed seeing Moll’s leadership, which she’s not collaborative the way Michael is. It’s very much a top-down situation, which, you know, they talk about how the Breen are incredibly hierarchical. They would freak out if you ask them to collaborate. But she is sending people to their probable death, and they’re going, in part because of the magic of L’ak being Scion. But also, Moll, without making a big deal about it, is really respectful of them.
Anika: She has a force of personality. She’s still in her Daenerys stage. And I do like that her one Breen sidekick is able to sort of almost temper her. Like, she is very top down the way that the Breen expect her to be, but she does have this one Breen who’s sort of like, it’s almost like he’s helping her be more Breen. I appreciate that relationship.
Liz: Someone I follow suggested that she may end up running the Breen the way Catherine the Great ran Russia, which is, you know, she comes in as an outsider, she marries their Tsar, he dies. She basically takes over and becomes an autocrat, but she’s really good at it. And that’s not really the ending I want for Moll, but it’s an ending that would make sense.
Anika: Yeah, I don’t even — clearly because Michael and Moll have gone into the barrel, big things are going to happen to them. And I remember how at the end of season three, the Osyraa arc, and I was just sort of upset that the Osyraa arc ended with Osyraa going away and dying, and the Orians just being the Orians again, and then nothing, we haven’t heard from them since.
Liz: No.
Anika: I don’t want that. I don’t want that for the Breen.
Anika:
Anika: I don’t like the idea of bringing in these other interesting cultures, Federationizing them in some way through force or diplomacy, and then they’re just gone.
Liz: Yes. Like the idea that the Cardassians should join the Federation a day after DS9 ends. Obviously, the Breen as a culture need to change, they need to evolve, but I don’t want them to become our BFFs right away. They still need to maintain their essential Breen-osity. Remain Breen.
Anika: Bounty hunter Moll taking over the Breen is a more interesting story because it’s in between. It’s no longer the Breen Empire and it’s also not the Federation. That’s more interesting.
Liz: Yeah.
Anika: I don’t think we’re going there, and I don’t think it would be the best option for Moll herself.
Liz: No, but I think it would be interesting for the Breen, and it would force them to become less xenophobic, but also still keeping them as antagonists. Just maybe, you know, the Breen as they are now monstrous. You can have someone who is opposed to your goals without being monstrous. Fewer war crimes is what I’m asking for from the Breen.
Anika: Fewer war crimes.
Anika: I mean, I feel like that is a generous, a generous offer on your part.
Liz: Thank you. I’ve just become really fond of the Breen and I like their complicated politics. If we don’t meet Primarch Tahal next week in the finale, I will be disappointed. I already had a crush on her.
Anika: Exactly. That’s what I’m saying about Osyraa. Don’t do this to me again. One thing that I really enjoyed was when the foursome beams over to the ship and they have to wait for their translators to kick in. Michael’s like, everything’s gonna be fine. And then she’s like, I got this and starts insulting them. I was thrown back into the pilot episode and the idea of the Vulcan Hello and that Michael is the best person for this mission.
Liz: Yes.
Anika: Not, like, the finding the tech mission, although obviously an anthropologist is what you want for that too, but dealing with the Breen and all of the different things that come out of that. I really like that we are leaning on all of Michael’s skills that have been there from the beginning, not just the ones that she learned last year as a captain, but all the way back to the beginning of when we learned who Michael is and the lessons that she got from childhood on.
Liz: Yes, because one thing about Michael, she had to learn from a very early age to fit in with an alien culture. And obviously the Vulcans are, I can’t believe I’m going to say this, more chill than the Breen, but she has become a chameleon. Also, big shout out to your cat and her butt, which I am-
Anika: That’s my boy. This is my one boy.
Liz: Oh, this is Bruno. Hi, Bruno.
Anika: That’s why he’s so big and takes up the entire screen.
Liz: “Look at my fancy butt hole.”
TikTok audio meme: Oh, everybody, look at my fancy butt hole.
Liz: I really liked with the translator how as it worked, some Breen words began to sound like English, but others didn’t. And that felt like a more realistic version of translation. As you learn a language, you start to pick out individual words, but you may not yet be fluent.
Anika: I know that there are those out there who get really upset about the subtitles, the idea of subtitles.
Liz: Those people will…
Anika: And just think that if the universal translator kicks in, we’re supposed to understand it right away. And instead of switching to the Breen speaking English, they switched to our people understanding Breen.
Liz: Yeah, yeah, I thought that was a really nice… I actually like Discovery‘s take on the universal translator better than any other Star Trek.
Anika: Yeah, it’s really fun.
Liz: I enjoyed how Michael and Book, like when they go off on their own, it really reminded me of Michael and Ash infiltrating the sarcophagus ship back in season one. And sadly they don’t blow anything up or rescue Katrina Cornwell, but that’s okay. This is their idea of a date and I respect the parallel.
Anika: I just thought of something that could be in the barrel. That would make me happy.
Liz: Is it Brent Spiner?
Anika: I’m sorry you said, unfortunately, they don’t come across Katrina Cornwell. And I was like, oh wait, I know where she could be. I think everyone who’s died could be in the buffer.
Liz: Oh my god, like not just Kat, but every single character ever in the history of Star Trek.
Anika: That’s right.
Liz: Like so many red shirts. Sito Jaxa. Yes.
Anika: Another bizarre headcanon that is not going to happen. Moving on.
Liz: And then because this is Discovery, Michael and Book decide that now, while they’re infiltrating an enemy ship, is the time to have a conversation about their relationship?
Anika: I mean, to be fair to Book, it was entirely Michael’s decision to have that conversation at that moment. I love that she pulls him out of the hallway into a little corner and says out loud textually, this isn’t the time to have this conversation. However, I have to tell you something right now.
Liz: So for no reason in particular, I went back to the first two episodes of this season and rewatched all the Rayner scenes. And when he…
Anika: No reason.
Liz: No reason. But that also took me to the scene on the desert planet in the first episode where Michael and Book are arguing over how their relationship ended and they’re both blaming the other for ending communication. And here we pick that thread up again and they admit that they both let go, which I think is really mature and real and kind of great as a storytelling choice.
Anika: This season’s arc of the Michael and Book relationship has been so tight.
Liz: Yeah.
Anika: It’s really, really heartwarming to see because now after that conversation, it could go either way. It could go any way.
Liz: Yes.
Anika: And as much as I want them to end up together, and I do think given that they rewrote the next episode as the series finale, we will get that.
Liz: Yes.
Anika: I can also see them being friends. And continuing to have a very solid, good friendship for 50 years.
Liz: Absolutely. Their relationship could take so many forms from now and they would all feel natural. Even if they decided to go their separate ways and no longer be friends, I would be sad, but it would sort of — that to me would make the least amount of sense, but it would make some sense.
Anika: It would make some sense because they are both people who prefer things to be like closure. I can see that. But I feel like there would be some pining and I don’t want any pining.
Liz: No, no.
Speaking of pining, rewatching Labyrinths with my flatmate the other night, it just hit me like a ton of bricks that Rayner is very quietly in love with Michael. And I actively don’t want them to get together. I feel like his feelings are not the type that would, you know, this is putting her on a pedestal, not a situation where you could have a real relationship. I feel like Rayner’s feelings for Michael are not the sort where even he expects or wants her to reciprocate them. But naturally, I said something about this and then Tumblr started showing me all the shipper content and a lot of it is just villainizing Book. And I’m like, why would you do that when they are not even together right now? Michael has effectively been single this whole season. All you have to do is write a fic where she and Book decide to stay friends and she is open to pursue other relationships. We don’t need to make the Black guy the villain.
Anika: I mean, okay, so not to get on my soapbox, but once again, it is possible to love more than one person.
Liz: Right.
Anika: It is possible to have a relationship with more than one person, but it’s definitely possible to have feelings for more than one person. Sometimes you have feelings for more than one person at the same time.
Liz: Yeah. And I actually don’t think that Michael has any attraction or romantic feelings for Rayner. I think he is her friend and someone she respects, and he is quietly dealing with his infatuation alone and not making it anyone else’s problem because he is a fucking grown up, which is why I ship it.
Anika: Right. I know. You know me. I never ship people who belong together. Other than Michael and Book. There’s an exception to every rule.
Liz: Yeah. But everyone in this whole season has been really mature and low key and undramatic about their romantic relationships, and I’m super into it. I thought this episode was going to set up a thing where Hugh or Paul freaked out that Adira was going on a dangerous mission. No! They had their feelings. They were proud of Adira, and they dealt with it.
Anika: So, okay, going back to season three, whichever season it was where it was season three, because Hugh was on an away mission, and Paul was really, really upset about it.
Liz: Yeah.
Anika: Remember this?
Liz: It’s the end of season three, and Michael has to forcibly send Paul away.
Anika: Yes, forcibly send Paul away, and it took him for the first half of season four to get over it. I mean, not even that.
Liz: He’s not even unfriendly. He’s just a little cool towards Michael.
Anika: Oh, yes.
Anika: But my point is that Paul was so optimistic about how everything was going to be fine, that the danger wasn’t going to get them, and what they needed to do was stay cool and focus on their job, and that everything would be okay. It was like the opposite of Paul at the end of season 3, where everyone was forcing the idea of just do your job.
Liz: Paul has really come a long way, even separate from the changes in his personality brought on by the Tardigrade DNA. Losing Hugh and getting him back and then getting Adira has really helped him chill out as a human.
But everything with Paul and Hugh this season has been like, oh, something is happening. It’s going to be a crisis. Oh, no, they dealt with it. Oh, something new is happening. It’s going to be, oh, no, they’ve dealt with it. One of the reasons I’m mostly OK with Discovery ending at this point is that everyone has reached this point where they’re just dealing with their shit without drama. And you do that too much, and you end up with the Enterprise D.
Anika: I was just really proud of Paul.
Liz: Yeah, yeah.
Anika: Hugh was the one who was flailing a little.
Liz: You know, that’s fair.
Anika: Which he’s allowed to. I’m not saying that he’s not allowed to. It was just refreshing to see Paul so positive.
Liz: Yeah, yeah.
Anika: And confident. Confident in the unit, not in himself. He’s always had confidence in himself.
Liz: A little too much.
Anika: And he had confidence in math, was all good. But he was confident in Discovery.
Liz: He trusts people now, which he did not at the beginning of the series.
And then your note here is that Saru and T’Rina are the most mature relationship in Star Trek. And, like, from what I have just said, I think there is competition, but I absolutely think that they are up there. In terms of understanding their feelings and having conversations about it.
Anika: Right. And also making space to have those conversations. Instead of, for example, in the middle of an away team mission, where they are undercover and could be discovered at any moment.
Liz: But Michael and Book need to wear masks to have that conversation. Saru and T’Rina — T’Rina is ironically very emotionally aware. But also, earlier this season, we had T’Rina calling out Saru for protecting her. And this time it’s Saru going, actually, I am capable of behaving logically and separating emotion from, you know. And neither of them took that personally.
Anika: No.
Liz: These are normal conversations to have with a lover or a partner or a colleague. And they just did it and they got on with it. Once again, relationship models. Who would have thought that one day we would hold up Saru as relationship role model guy?
Anika: Wild. He’s come a long, long way too. From being completely incapable of having any conversations with Michael that didn’t end in biting commentary.
Liz: And passive aggression.
Anika: Yes, passive aggression.
Liz: Saru was incredibly passive aggressive. And now he can simply set boundaries and he can say things without that undercurrent of resentment.
Anika: But I want to circle back to you saying that T’Rina is ironically emotional or in tune with her emotions. And I’m going to say that I think that T’Rina is the best representation of actual Vulcans since Tuvok.
Liz: Agreed.
Anika: That Tuvok and T’Rina are real Vulcans who are, in fact, emotionally intelligent and capable of understanding emotions. And they make these choices to hold them in, but they’re also capable of showing them as needed. And they definitely understand other people’s and humans’ emotions. Maybe not Neelix’s, but that’s acceptable. The rest of the Vulcans that we get to know and love, they’re actually terrible at that. And I don’t think we should hold that — I know that I have been holding it against all of Vulcan. I accept that it is my fault that I’ve been blaming all of Vulcan for stuff Sarek does. And that’s wrong. Sarek and Spock are not good Vulcans. Tuvok and T’Rina, excellent.
Liz: But also T’Rina is of Ni’Var. And this is a culture which has reincorporated Romulan society So she is more openly expressive of her emotions, not in the secretive sly way that you often got with Romulans, where every conversation is a competition. T’Rina just seems expressive but honest. And she is, you know, she’s reserved, but she smiles. She is a different type of Vulcan. She is a Ni’Varan.
Anika: She is. And I love her.
Liz: She’s so great. So great.
Anika: While we’re talking about our relationships, do we want to talk about our bridge crew?
Liz: I ship Rayner with the chair. So does Tilly.
Anika: Yes, Tilly definitely ships Rayner with the chair. I a little bit ship Rayner with Tilly.
Liz: Oh, yeah. Oh, yeah.
Anika: Just got to say, I Wouldn’t Kill You is a really great, lovely…
Liz: Oh, yeah. Yeah. I know we’re all about the Tilly/Vance, but Vance is married and seems monogamous. And Rayner is single and inappropriately old, but not actually that far in rank from Tilly these days. I’m just saying. Like, she’s not even a permanent member of his chain of command.
Anika: And, you know, picking her as his XO, that is Star Trek‘s love language.
Liz: The only time I haven’t shipped on some level a captain and their XO is Michael and Saru, and that’s because he’s a horse. So, yes.
Anika: And because they are siblings from the beginning, it was very obvious.
Liz: Yeah, that would be weird. Tilly and Rayner, totally okay.
Anika: Their little conversation on the bridge about the chair and how he makes everyone nervous and how he wouldn’t murder her in a foxhole. So beautiful. Everything about that from her leaning in to have the conversation to her little smile at the end. I was like, oh, that. Let me draw a little heart around that.
Liz: But Rayner’s relationship with a chair is something that we’ve been talking about all season. And I’m annoyed that they’ve made it textual. I was like, that’s just something that was secret between me and everyone else in fandom and the show.
Anika: I know.
Liz: However, you do need to bring it out to capture the people who are on their phones while they watch Discovery.
Anika: And then they wouldn’t understand the ending.
Liz: Yes. Because I watched this episode and then I closed the window. And literally the only thing that I could remember happening was Rayner sitting in the chair. The final shot.
Anika: Right? I mean, because it was such a good final shot. The last five minutes of this episode were so good. And everything just picks up. Everything’s going at breakneck speed. The smile that Michael gives before she goes into the barrel. She’s so happy. That was the grown up Alice in Wonderland “I choose to drop into the rabbithole” look. And I was like, everything is coming full circle. It’s so beautiful. I was so happy.
Liz: We’ve complained earlier in the season that they really had to speed run Rayner’s characterization and his relationships with everyone. But here at this point, it’s really feeling natural. The call back to how Michael and Rayner first met. Which is also a call back to her early encounters with Moll. Moll understands what Michael is talking about. And I’m actually really excited that it’s Moll and Michael trapped in the barrel because it’s mostly been Book trying to interact with Moll. And clearly that is not working. And now it’s Michael’s turn to go in.
Anika: And Michael tried to speak with L’ak in the ISS episode. And that didn’t go off so great either. So this is the pairing that is going to work.
Liz: Yeah. And I think that’s smart. I think you do need to change up your combinations. And as we were saying last week, L’ak and Book would be BFFs. Because they’re basically the same guy.
Anika: Michael and Moll travel around saving the galaxy while L’ak and Book take care of the babies.
Liz: I actually think it would be more, Moll travels around committing crimes and Michael chases her, while Book and L’ak are at home organizing play dates for their kids and hanging out, having coffee.
Anika: I still think they live together. It could be a two-family home.
Liz: Yeah, yeah, yeah.
Anika: But they live together, even if, in fact, Michael is chasing crime doer Moll all around the galaxy.
Liz: Yeah, yeah, this is exactly how I want it to go. I just think that Eve Harlow is such an amazing actress as Moll. I want to seek out more of her work. I hope she continues to do great work. She has an amazing presence.
Anika: The physicality of how she interacts with all of the different people she interacts with.
Liz: Yes.
Anika: The way that Moll is physical with L’ak, versus the way that Moll is physical with Breen, versus the way that she is physical with Book. There are some actors, I would say that Doug Jones is one of them, where embodying the role is very important. And Moll is playing a humanoid, human type person who doesn’t need to embody the role in the same way that Doug Jones does for Saru in many of his roles. But she’s doing it anyway.
Liz: Yes.
Anika: And I appreciate that. I just wanted to give a shout out to it.
Anika:
Liz: No, no. I think you’re completely right. And also, when I was scrobbling through the first two episodes, I saw a lot of the early Moll and L’ak scenes. And at the time I was like, she’s very cool, but is she trying too hard to be a cool rebel, professional criminal? And yes, that is a role that she is playing. And we saw in the flashbacks in Mirrors that this is a mask that is becoming the persona, but it’s still a role. And even more so for L’ak.
Anika: And then in these past two episodes where she’s playing a new role, there’s like three Molls, there’s layers of Molls on top of each other. And only when she’s creating the buffer — here’s where we can shout out Dr M’Benga, because he would be so proud. Maybe they’re secretly related.
Liz: Is Moll, in fact, descended from a nebula?
Anika: But that scene, and then the scene where she chooses to go into the barrel, like the mask of Queen drops, and she becomes the L’ak Moll. And that switch, I had the same reaction as to Michael’s smile when she jumps in. It’s like, oh, I see your real personality right now. And all of these other parts you’re playing are that you have to put on. You have to be the captain most of the time. But sometimes you get to just be yourself completely, and that’s really exciting.
Liz: Yes. It’s really cool to watch, and I’m really excited to see Eve Harlow and Sonequa Martin-Green interact more one-on-one in what I assume is going to be a white void with a fresh puzzle.
Anika: Is David Cronenberg there?
Liz: Yes.
Anika: Right. I mean, he has to be. That’s who I actually expect to be in the white void. Not Brent Spiner. You’re not allowed to even think that.
Liz: Kovach was a Progenitor all along.
Anika: Kovach was a Progenitor all along. That’s where we’re going, clearly.
Anika:
Liz: So I’m going to go into Canva, and I’m going to make a graphic that’s listing all the people who could possibly be in the barrel, and I guess I have to make an addition. That’s what I’m going to do today instead of editing this episode.
Anika: Excellent. The important things.
Liz: Circling back to the matter of the bridge crew, this is bad, but I kind of ship Jemisin and Asher more than I shipped Owosekun and Detmer. And this is purely because I didn’t like Detmer and I do like Asher.
Anika: The impression that I got of that scene, I have to say is these lines were written for Detmer and Owosekun, and they were just swapped out for these two people. Like, sorry, they are not enough of a character for me yet.
Liz: Oh, no, they’re not characters at all.
Anika: You have to have strong feelings for any of them.
Anika: Rhys’s backup on Tactical, I don’t know her name, but she’s my favorite third generation bridge crew person.
Liz: I actually like all of the new bridge crew and I’m sad that we’re not going to get more time with them. And I’m also sad that they didn’t know it was the last season and maybe the actresses playing Detmer and Owosekun would have stayed on for that extra time. Maybe Doug Jones, maybe it would have been organized so he didn’t have time off to film Hocus Pocus 2 — you know, these are the choices you make when you don’t know that it’s your last hurrah. But at the same time, if Emily Coutts and the actress who plays Owosekun, whose name I’m blanking on, are getting extra work, then that’s great, because they’ve basically been glorified extras for four and a half years, and they’re talented actresses who deserve better.
Anika: And the show is ending, so let’s get them some good roles. I’m going to say Emily Coutts for Law & Order: Organised Crime coming to Peacock next fall. Probably next spring, I’ll be honest.
Liz: Are you manifesting that or is this a thing that’s actually happening?
Anika: I am manifesting that. That’s not something that’s actually happening. I am going to put that out into the world. My chaos powers have been doing pretty well for that show, so we’ll just see what happens.
Liz: Excellent, excellent. What does ‘build the shape of the one between the many’ mean?
Anika: I don’t know, but it sounds like a Vulcan proverb.
Liz: I was literally about to say, what’s inside the barrel is going to be Spock behind a pane of glass.
Anika: Exactly. You know? Okay, so it’s going to be Jean-Luc Picard, Brent Spiner, Kovach, and Sito Jaxa.
Liz: Yes, and Katrina Cornwell.
Anika: And Katrina Cornwell.
Liz: This seems pretty reasonable to me. I don’t see why anyone would have a problem with it.
Anika: If you want to tie all of the threads of all of the Star Trek series together, I just did it for you. You’re welcome.
Liz: My actual guess is that the one between the many is Michael because she facilitates communication between groups, between the Federation and Klingons, between the Federation and the Breen. But that means it could also be Moll. But also, who knows? It could just be another really easy puzzle.
Anika: I think that it being Michael, it would make the most sense for Discovery. And it would tie into the idea that Discovery is the most collaborative ship. And go all the way back to, and I know I poke fun of this speech and this phrase all the time, but it would go all the way back to We Are Starfleet.
Liz: Yes.
Anika: And explaining what that actually means.
Liz: Yes.
Anika: I do think it’s going to be a person. And maybe Moll and Michael will fight over who it’s going to be, which one of them gets to sacrifice themselves to save the galaxy or whatever. But of course, neither of them will die and it’ll be okay. And L’ak will also come back to life.
Liz: Yep.
Anika: But it’s definitely going to be important about who is in there and it’s those two who are in there.
Liz: Unless Michael has stuffed the Kweijian world root in her pocket somewhere along the line, I am less confident that Kweijian is going to be brought back. Although, I was reminded that the world root is like as symbolic of Kweijian as its people, so maybe you don’t need to bring the planet and the people back, just revive that root and Kweijian is reborn, in a sense. Like, we could have L’ak and Kweijian is what I’m saying.
Anika: Well, you know, in episode three of last season, when they went to Earth, and there was that giant tree.
Liz: Yes.
Anika: Remember the giant tree?
Liz: I will never forget the giant tree.
Anika: Well, that is what I’m expecting.
Anika: I’m expecting they plant the root and then we like flash forward to whenever Calypso happens. And there is a giant Kweijian tree. Because to be fair, that was also — all of Kweijian was a giant tree.
Liz: Yes.
Anika: So it’s not a crazy idea.
Liz: Yes. And then you said neither of them are going to die. But do we think someone is going to die?
Anika: Oh, definitely someone’s going to die. It’s just not going to be Moll or Michael. And if it is Moll or Michael, it’s going to be Moll.
Anika: But I don’t think that’s where her story ends.
Liz: I am inclined to say probably no one is going to die, but I am also concerned for Rayner, and also Rhys because we’ve had a lot of development for Rhys this season. And you know what happens when Discovery starts developing a side character.
Anika: At least they gave it more than one episode.
Liz: Oh, yeah, yeah. But this is also the season–
Anika: They’ve learned.
Liz: But this is also the season where they went back to retroactively develop Airiam. And I’m like, “Rhys!” But I — this is bad, but I would sacrifice Rhys over Rayner.
Anika: Despite Rhys having been here much longer, I am not attached to him.
Liz: I’m very fond of him. He’s been around since like episode four.
Anika: I forget his tragic backstory. I think it was like he was in a hurricane. And Starfleet saved him. Was that him or was that someone else?
Liz: I think that was him. But we also know that he is a total ship head.
Anika: Which would also make sense with his hurricane background.
Liz: Yes. He’s very handsome.
Anika: He’s a sweetheart. Is he the one who was flirting with Tilly in the party? With the beer pong?
Liz: I thought that was… No, I can’t remember. When we cover season one, episode by episode, we’ll have to look out for him. But you know, he’s a really good guy. He’s great with Adira, supporting them on the mission. I love seeing Adira getting to interact with more people outside of their bubble. But yeah, if someone has to die, and I do not believe that is the case, I’m going to bunt Rhys instead of Rayner.
Anika: They’re probably going to kill off my favorite Breen. As sacrificial lambs. That would definitely happen.
Liz: We actually have our screener for the finale, and I don’t want to watch it, but I do want to scrobble through to make sure there’s a wedding.
Anika: There has to be a wedding. They mentioned it again. You can’t bring up the wedding that many times, and then not have this end in a wedding.
Liz: Chekhov’s wedding.
Anika: I must rather have a wedding than a funeral.
Liz: Oh yeah, yeah.
Anika: And the finale is 81 minutes long. Therefore, they have plenty of time for my wedding, for Book and Michael getting back together, for a giant tree, for all of the things that they had to shove in, because it turns out that this is the series finale.
Liz: I reckon they can wrap this plot up in 20 to 30 minutes, and then the rest is just chill hangs.
Anika: Hey, that’s what happened in Picard.
Liz: Right!
Anika: Nobody died, and there were like 12 different endings. Perfect.
Liz: I am actually very okay with shows, even shows with short seasons, basically wrapping it up early in the finale and then dealing with the consequences and potentially setting up the next season. Obviously not in this case, because we’ve been robbed.
Anika: The only thing that I really want to talk about is how Discovery was blasting through the crazy Breen ship, which, I had not realized that Breen ships looked like that. I guess I just, I’m sure that we’d seen one before this, but I never pay attention to ships, so I didn’t notice that they’re like some kind of diamond shape thing.
Liz: Oh yeah, those things are massive. They’re like five star destroyers.
Anika: And, but I really like this new era of Star Trek realizing that their ships are highly maneuverable. Like, you look at a starship all the way back to the original Enterprise, and it looks maneuverable, but they never ever did any of that until literally last year. They treated them like star destroyers.
Liz: That’s because, you know, they started out dealing with models, physical models.
Anika: I know. I’m not like saying they should have done this in the 60s. I’m saying that they, they held on to it for a lot longer than they had to because it was tradition. Because they were, it was like, that’s not how that works. And it’s like, no, space is — you can do all sorts of things in space. Space is not linear.
Liz: Yeah. Space is up and down and stuff.
Anika: And those ships are made to fly. Look at them. They’re ridiculous looking. Like the Battlestar Galactica, yes, that just sits in space and does nothing.
Liz: But that’s because it’s got its little vipers to do all the maneuverable stuff.
Anika: Exactly. And that’s what I’m saying. And a Star Destroyer, they also have their TIE fighters, so they’re fine. They don’t need to be in a maneuverable, but little tiny Enterprises are tiny compared to both of those ships. They are not destroyers. They are supposed to fly around and be cool. And it was very cool in this episode. Discovery, obviously, has been very cool from the beginning with the way that it, it does the spinny…
Liz: Love a spin, yes.
Anika: But that was still, like, we’re spinny popping around the galaxy into a linear orbit. They were not being cool the way they were in this episode and the way the Enterprise-D was in the finale of Picard. And I know people were against that, but it was awesome.
Liz: So it was great. Bring on the finale, but not too soon because I’m going to miss this show.
Anika: I already miss this show. I was okay with this being the last season until this season started. I was like, oh, oh, actually, I don’t want this to go away.
Liz: On the other hand, Discovery‘s odd numbered seasons are always better than the even ones.
Anika: Right.
Liz: So maybe it’s good that we ended season five instead of season six.
Anika: I wouldn’t want a bad season six. And to be honest, I wouldn’t want a bad season seven.
Liz: Which is usually what happens.
Anika: Which is usually what happens.
Liz: Let’s go out leaving us wanting more.
Anika: Thank you for listening to Antimatter Pod. You can find our show notes at antimatterpod.com, including links to our social media credits for our theme music and transcripts of our episodes. You can follow us on Facebook, Tumblr, Instagram, Blue Sky, all at antimatterpod. And on Mastodon at @antimatterpod@tenforward.social. Why does Mastodon have to be so different?
Liz: Because it’s special.
Anika: If you like us, leave a review on Apple Podcasts or wherever you consume your podcasts. The more reviews, the easier it is for new listeners to find us. And tell your friends. Join us next week when we will be discussing the series finale of Star Trek: Discovery, Life Itself.
Liz: My body is not ready.
Anika: My body is definitely not ready. I’m going to be crying from start to finish. This is how I feel.