First, we both have essays out!
On Raffi by Anika Dane is in the current issue of Star Trek Quarterly
SECOND, it’s time. Anika and Liz are being called away from a fancy 32nd century cocktail party to stand in an empty void and discuss the first two episodes of Star Trek: Discovery‘s fifth and final season…
- Compared with the over-the-top emotional drama monarchs of Star Trek: Picard‘s third season, it’s just nice to be with competent professionals who get the job done
- Picking up the threads of Star Trek: Picard‘s first season
- Captain Picard is still the most important individual who ever existed
- This arc so far has the Star Trek V problem: they can’t actually meet God, so the real meaning of life will be the friends we made along the way
- Tilly has a rare but valuable anti-ambition arc
- Moll and L’ak have wandered in from another series, but we’re not mad about it
- It’s nice that Vance has a wife and Tilly has a love interest, but we’re still shipping Vance/Tilly and we’re not sorry
Transcript
Anika: Welcome to Antimatter Pod, a Star Trek podcast where we discuss fashion, feminism, subtext, and subspace hosted by Anika and Liz. Today, we’re discussing the fifth season premiere episodes of Star Trek: Discovery, Red Directive, and Under the Twin Moons.
Liz: Our friends are back!
Anika: Our friends are back, our family.
Liz: You know, even though I don’t have a character who is alive to obsess over the way I did in the first two seasons, and I don’t have an OTP of people who are presently alive and in the same universe, I’m just so happy to be with this crew again. I love the crew of the Strange New Worlds Enterprise. I really love the supporting cast of Star Trek: Picard, and also their roles in the prequel series, Star Trek: The Next Generation. But something about the Discovery team is really special.
Anika: I think that the way you said our friends are back and family, it’s sort of like coming home. It’s a comfortable place, based on The Next Generation to Picard parallels, that would seem like coming home, but they’re so overdramatic, and these people seem very competent. I just trust them. Michael Burnham has an energy that is very, I am going to take care of this for you.
Liz: The only other crew that gives me this feeling is the Voyager crew. And like the Discovery crew, there are a bunch of misfits who, to some extent, were thrown together. But the thing is, I’m into season six of Voyager in my rewatch, and it’s just bad, you know? I feel like the writers never had a chance to get over their burnout from season five. It just feels like Voyager by rote, that it’s not really telling many new or interesting stories. So I’m really glad that Discovery has the short seasons, and as much as I’ll be sorry to see them go, I’m glad that it has an end point, and it’s not going to drag itself out into mediocrity, the way Voyager did.
Anika: Yeah. They didn’t know that this was going to be their last season when they started, so there is a little jitteriness that that causes me, but it’s better than every other show that I’m currently watching and obsessed with, because at least it feels like they know what they’re doing. Every season has an arc. It has a beginning, a middle, and an end. It’s telling a story. It’s going to be okay. The universe is going to be threatened gravely, but they’re going to make it out. That’s how I feel about Discovery in a way that I don’t even feel about the other Star Treks, really.
Liz: The thing is, they’re going to make it out, but you can’t say there’s no tension, because we know that people will be changed. You know, Book is changed from his experience in season four. Michael is incredibly different from where she was at the beginning of season one.
Anika: And that’s comforting for me as well. I keep making fun of Picard, even though I love Picard, and, you know, I have a strange relationship with Star Trek: Picard, in that I love and hate it equally. But Picard was required to not change in order for the story to work. And I like character growth. I’m a big fan of character growth. And the one thing that Discovery really has over all of the other Star Treks is that ability for people to change. Maybe because the crews change a little, the settings change, like everything changes around them. And therefore, they have that freedom to stay true to themselves, but still also have character growth. It’s a story that is about Michael’s journey. And I appreciate that, because television is really bad at character growth and is getting worse.
Liz: So much worse. And I think audiences are bad at dealing with character growth.
Anika: Yes, which is why television is so bad at it, because everyone’s afraid to let it happen. And I think that it’s why people maybe don’t like Discovery as much, because it’s different.
Liz: No, absolutely. And I also think this is why limited series with only one season are so popular, because they do have space for their characters to grow and change. And then the story is over and you don’t need to continue that process. You know, I love a limited series. I love a wanky HBO prestige drama, but I wish that your regular streaming drama, your network drama put in some of that work.
Anika: Right.
Liz: And Discovery does. I remember when we were first watching it and you were saying that The Good Wife was sort of straddling the ground between network drama and soap opera and prestige television. And Discovery and The Good Fight were the flagship shows of CBS All Access, as it was, and pick up that legacy.
Anika: Very much so. The magic of The Good Wife is that it was 75% a completely normal network television series, but 25% odd.
Liz: Yes.
Anika: And about character growth and about quirky things happening.
Liz: Change.
Anika: Change. Yes, exactly.
Liz: I have to confess that I noped out of The Good Fight after the third season. I can never watch Michael Sheen in anything. That show ruined him for me. And I think they turned the quirk dial too far. It became sort of like the difference between The Practice and Ally McBeal.
Anika: What’s funny about The Good Fight is that, because it was on CBS All Access instead of CBS, they could do that. They could turn up the quirk dial all the way.
Liz: And I think Discovery also turns the quirk dial up. You know, we have the horse guy with anxiety, and the spore drive, and the Klingons who only speak Klingon, which really shouldn’t be that shocking, but people got very upset about it. And since season one of Discovery, various Star Treks have been actively reigning in the quirk.
Anika: Exactly. On purpose because people were a little…
Liz: Yeah, yeah… And people say, oh, oh, Discovery isn’t camp, but Discovery is the most camp of the new live action Star Treks. Speaking of, we have the Red Directive and we have Kovich’s … I keep getting confused with Luka Kovich from ER. It’s a real problem.
Anika: I had that just the other day, after I’d written out our outline, and then I was like walking in my car or something. And I was thinking, oh, I didn’t put Dr. Kovich in our outline. And then I went, wait, he has the same name. And then I let I had an identity crisis about it, because they couldn’t be more different.
Liz: One is Kovich and one is Kovič. And I am going to get it wrong this week. And probably for the foreseeable future. Anyway, his little thing that summons Vance and Michael to his infinity room and it’s also in the opening credits. I’m sorry, this is terrible, but it looks like a NuvaRing. For those of you who are not up on contraceptive devices from, oh gosh, 10, 15 years ago. I don’t know if it’s still around because it was kind of bad, but the NuvaRing was like a silicon ring that was impregnated with hormones and you…
Anika: Inserted it in places.
Liz: It was inserted in places, and I used it for six months and it was really, really impractical. I do not think it was designed by anyone who had a vagina. You know, it twisted and you could make infinity shapes, and suffice to say…
Anika: I absolutely can imagine Dr. Kovich designing it.
Liz: Oh, 100%, yes.
Anika: So, his little room of whatever he feels like he’s being at the moment….
Liz: His Janet’s void.
Anika: Yes, his Janet’s void.
Liz: My flatmate is actually convinced that he is a Janet. He has been a construct all along.
Anika: I mean, I don’t doubt that there is something weird about him.
Liz: Yeah, I just like the idea that he’s a weird little guy.
Anika: He’s a weird little guy. I mean, he’s something. I mean, he doesn’t know where he came from or why. So, he’s something. He’s not just regular Starfleet.
Liz: No, no, and he doesn’t seem to be Section 31 or whatever. He’s just a weird little guy. He is the Deep State. [laughs]
Anika: Yes.
Anika: And he is in charge of Red Directives, I guess, sort of.
Liz: Do they really go into much detail about what a Red Directive is?
Anika: No.
Liz: Okay, cool.
Anika: That’s why my first question is, what even is it? Articles online are saying what it is, but I don’t think the text said it. I think they’re just basing it on the fact that it’s important. They have to do everything they can to make the mission successful, up to including murder.
Liz: Yeah.
Anika: That’s the Red Directive.
Liz: Okay, Starfleet.
Anika: Red for murder.
Liz: But as you also note, Starfleet has a lot of weird directives, and this is just, you know…
Anika: I’m just saying.
Liz: The Omega Directive is for the captain alone to go out and destroy this molecule.
Anika: Which is absurd. Every time I think about that episode, they had to make a directive for that. It’s just silly.
Liz: Someone filed paperwork!
Anika: Someone filed paperwork about destroying a molecule that was basically the Borg version of what they’re looking for in Discovery now.
Liz: Well, it was also the molecule powering the DMA last season. So I think we can very safely assume that Michelle Paradise has watched The Omega Directive more recently than not.
I really like how this story weaves in the threads from previous Star Treks without being exclusionary. You know, my flatmate hasn’t seen The Chase, but she completely got what was going on. And we have…
Anika: You didn’t have to go immediately watch the episode in order to understand why it was involved in this.
Liz: No, although obviously we’re going to. And then it picks up the threads which Picard season one abandoned, like the synths and Michael Chabon’s Romulan culture stuff, which I love.
Anika: Which I say, thank you. Thank you, Star Trek: Discovery, I appreciate you.
Liz: I think Discovery is much more interested in the big ideas that Picard abandoned than Akiva Goldsman when he took over from Chabon. And since I’m on the record as not having a very high opinion of Goldsman as a writer or showrunner, I’m going to say good because those were interesting ideas. And I love seeing the Discovery crew dealing with Romulan culture as an historical artifact. It’s not like “Romulans are sneaky.” It’s that “Romulans in the 24th century were obsessed with secrecy.”
Anika: They brought up the doors to the Romulan homes. And I was like, the amazing lore that was only on Michael Chaffin’s Medium account has finally made it in. Because Picard season one started all of that and put in all the crumbs. But the threads, you know, they didn’t go anywhere. They didn’t get picked up. They just sort of went off into a pit with my love, my Romulan love. And again, I’m always on board with, we should have connections between the series, that it should be the same universe. It doesn’t make the universe small. It makes the universe real. And so I want those storylines to come in. But I totally rolled my eyes when Picard’s face showed up, when it was like literally, and here’s a screenshot from this episode.
Liz: Oh my gosh.
Anika: We’re gonna watch it on the screen. I was not into that.
Liz: My flatmate is someone who understands film and she has a film degree and all of that. And she was like, no, you can’t just put that remastered HD screencap in the middle of this gorgeous 4K show.
Anika: It doesn’t — it’s obvious. It’s like they’re watching a VHS. It’s just so not right. It pulls me out of the reality, but it’s fine. I get it. I understand. I just laughed.
Liz: No, it looks silly. It looks silly the way an old photograph looks silly. And I am happy to assume that the intervening centuries have degraded some Federation records. And that’s fine. That’s how that’s how it goes.
Anika: Good to know Captain Picard’s still the most important person to have ever lived.
Liz: Well, he also came up … remember, he was name dropped in Unification…
Anika: Earlier, right? Exactly. Like, legitimately, Picard is the most important human ever. That’s what I get from Star Trek these days.
Liz: Yeah, you know, Tilly is like, “Why do all the students have to write essays about this Picard guy? I’ve never heard of him.” And everyone’s like, “You’ve never heard of Jean-Luc Picard? Philistine! Fake Starfleet officer!”
Anyway, this is a series about a puzzle. And so we begin with a Romulan puzzle box. And I feel like the stakes seem really high in that, you know, there’s this possible weapon or projectile device, which I assume is going to be some sort of biological Genesis device, whatever. I don’t really care. I feel like this story has the Star Trek V problem in that they can’t actually meet God.
Anika: Yeah, I really enjoyed these episodes. I did. But I will say I came out of them having more concerns, and the things that I wanted to talk about were the problems. They’re the things that bothered me in some ways, which I have been talking about. And I’m concerned. I enjoy mysteries and puzzles, but I don’t like literal puzzle boxes. Because it becomes about … you know, I’m hopeful that this is just going to be them having fun adventures, finding the pieces and putting it together. And it’s not going to be like twists and turns and secrets and flat puzzles that the audience … I hate being tricked. We know this about me. And I just don’t … I don’t want that to happen. And I worry, like, it feels a little like Lost or Rise of Skywalker in that we go to this piece and then we get another piece and we find another place where we learn things, but none of those paths ever actually go anywhere.
Liz: It feels a bit like an open world video game.
Anika: And so I’m scared. But you know, they did make a Romulan for me. I appreciate that. They did bring in a Holocron. I appreciate that. And I think you’re right. And that’s the other thing is that it feels a little bit like Prometheus. And I love the Aliens. I even love Alien3 in some ways, and I do not love Prometheus. It makes me violently angry when I think about it.
Liz: No, I’ve watched the first four Alien movies last year, some for the first time. And then I got to Prometheus and its sequel and I was like, actually, no, we’re not going to go there.
Anika: I have a lot of fear about the God stuff and the biological Genesis device idea and the concept of, let’s explain why all humanoids look humanoid. I’ve said this many times before. We know this about me. I don’t actually care. The answer is because we are human and we are making the stories and so they have to look like us. I know that as a person. And so I don’t care about the in-universe explanation because it will never be good enough.
Liz: The Chase answered a question that shouldn’t have been asked, because it just makes the suspension of disbelief a bit wobbly. I’m very curious to see where they go with this story and Discovery because I think Discovery is smart enough to do it well. But I do suspect that the real meaning of life will be the friends we made along the way.
Anika: That’s been true every other season.
Liz: Right, right.
Anika: Presumably.
Liz: But I think … Do you remember last year I was saying the solution to Book’s angst about losing his planet is that he and Michael should have a baby and then he should move to Ni’Var and be a stay-at-home dad? I still think that that is an ending that would work for this couple and this series.
Anika: The series.
Liz: Because it’s all about, you know, these aliens created life. And I don’t know if you’re aware, but many humans can also create life.
Anika: WHAT?
Siri on Liz’s Apple Watch: Sorry, I don’t understand.
Liz: I just really confused Siri with this truth bomb! But there we have Michael contemplating her future and her legacy and what is her purpose beyond Starfleet and beyond Discovery. And she’s in her 30s. She’s at the pinnacle of her career. She has made the universe safe. And she and Book are both really profoundly orphaned. (I know that her mother is alive, but she’s also in a Romulan cult.) So, you know, I think having a child and continuing her career would make sense for Michael in a way that it wouldn’t make sense for, say, Jean-Luc Picard. Because no one would look at Picard and think this guy needs biological children to complete his existence.
Anika: Well, I don’t want to be suggesting that Michael needs biological children to complete her existence.
Liz: I don’t think it’s a matter of completion, but I think it is a more likely choice she would make than, say, Janeway.
Anika: Yes. I would love … Sort of like the promise of Next Generation was that you could be in Starfleet and you could also have a family, you know, unlike Kirk, who had to never see his son in order for his son to be okay. And then none of that happened.
Liz: No. And in fact, we end up with the same situation with Picard, where he can never see his son for his son’s literal safety.
Anika: So I think that going back to that idea and saying — you know, even in Voyager, there were kids, but they weren’t the captain’s kids. They weren’t the bridge crew’s kids. Or even in Deep Space Nine, like, Sisko had to leave the ship. He had to be on a space station in order to take care of his kid.
Liz: And then when he has a baby coming, he has to nope out and become Space Jesus.
Anika: Yeah, we’ve said this before. Star Trek has some weird ideas about children. And if we could see a family, if we could have the happy ending include a family, for, yes, young people, it would sort of be, it would be great for Michael herself because her backstory is that she was with her parents, and they were attacked by Klingons and she was the sole survivor. And, you know, like everyone.
Liz: Yes.
Anika: So not only is she profoundly orphaned, but she was also profoundly traumatized by the death of her parents and the destruction of the family unit.
Liz: Yeah, no. I think Michael deserves a family of her own. And also, I just think it would be really radical for someone in Star Trek to actively choose to become pregnant rather than having a weird and convenient contraceptive accident. Because I’ve got to say, contraception in the Star Trek universe does not seem effective.
Anika: Well, that’s because Dr. Kovich is in charge of it.
Liz: Going back through the ages.
Anika: Exactly.
Anika: He exists throughout Star Trek timeline and he’s in charge.
Liz: He’s just going back and sabotaging everyone’s contraception through the ages. He is the Pope.
Anika: Okay, so that’s something you need to draw. And moving on.
Liz: Yes.
Liz: Paul is also thinking about his legacy because the Spore Drive program really has been shuttered this time. And I was kind of like, but isn’t it enough, Paul, that you made the Spore Drive, but he’s not that type of guy.
Anika: He’s not that type of guy. And he also, I mean, I think that he feels like, you know, I’m in my prime and so I have things to do.
Liz: No, look, that’s absolutely fair.
Anika: He’s a product of his society, which is our society.
Liz: I like the idea of him sort of feeling a connection with, of all people, Altan Soong.
Anika: I mean, this is another where I don’t want, as much as I harp on Picard being the best person in the galaxy and it being ridiculous, at least he’s a good person. Whereas Altan Soong, the entire Soong family, just they need to stop and yet we’re never going to escape them.
Liz: No, no, but I like the idea that Noonien Soong, who, among other things, kind of did create a murderbot–
Anika: True, true, true.
Liz: –Is a footnote. Has been replaced.
Liz: Yeah, yeah, and it’s Altan and Maddox and they probably Rosalind Franklined Agnes’s work, are the ones who created a society that is still around and still thriving 800 years later. And we have this synth, Fred, who — he’s another weird little guy.
Anika: He’s so funny.
Liz: He’s out there collecting doodads from his own past and being kind of a little weirdo. And isn’t that nice?
Anika: It is nice.
Liz: Also, if Isa Briones turned up to claim Fred’s body, I would not be mad.
Anika: No, I mean, Fred was kind of a sweetheart, honestly. It was like, oh, you know, you’re a synth and that makes me crazy. And you’re clearly, like Paul said, based on the Soongs. But, you know, you’re a goof. You’re a goofball. And I sort of appreciate that. And then they had a fun energy, the Moll and L’ak and Fred.
Liz: Yes.
Anika: Because Moll and L’ak are so serious and Fred was so completely ridiculous. It was sort of like watching Killjoys or something. Like, I felt like I was in a different series.
Liz: I feel like Moll and L’ak have definitely stepped out of Killjoys, and I love that. And I love that Fred, he’s just doing his thing and he got tragically murdered. But this is a time when people automatically give synths the dignity of taking his body and making sure it’s going to be repatriated to his family. And I like that the synths of Coppelius have gotten to grow beyond being creepy, sexy 13-year-old twins.
Anika: Yeah.
Liz: Also, Fred was not played by Brent Spiner. And for that, I think we can all be grateful.
Anika: All good. Because like, as you said, we have to move on. We have to move on to the Isa Briones and whoever played this guy, those actors, and they can play the Soongs for the next 20 years.
Liz: Love it. Have no complaints. Speaking of legacy, Tilly is just really comfortable in her role as a teacher and her legacy is her students. And it was just recently confirmed that the Starfleet Academy series will be set in the 32nd century. Obviously, they’re not going to say whether or not Mary Wiseman will be part of it, but I’m very optimistic.
Anika: But she’ll at least exist there. Even if she’s a guest star.
Liz: Yeah.
Anika: It is her legacy.
Liz: I feel like we’re not going to kill off Tilly in the final season.
Anika: No, because, you know, she sort of has a quieter arc than the Michaels and Sarus and Pauls of the world, because she was the youngest and she was the goofy little guy of season one who was taken under their wing. I love seeing her come into her own. I really appreciate it. That was one of my favorite episodes of last season. And I love seeing her happy but still our goofy little guy who’s fully committed to Discovery even though she’s also fully committed to the Academy and to her students. And it was just very rewarding.
Liz: Yeah, it’s interesting to see an anti-ambition arc. You know, she starts off declaring she’s going to be the youngest Starfleet captain and in a couple of years decides she actually doesn’t need that. That’s not who she wants to be.
Anika: We need more of those. Like, desperately we need more of those because that’s more people’s reality. And yet again, we live in this society and society says you always have to be striving. You have to know exactly who you are when you’re, like, five. And then you never change your mind, and you follow that goal and you succeed and then you say, okay, how can I build on this to continue being a success? And that’s the only way to win.
And I say, it’s not a game, so there’s nothing to win in the first place. And changing your mind is great, and not knowing what you’re doing until you’re in the middle of doing it is great. And then you find something that you love, and it has nothing to do with what you thought you wanted to be. And you should listen to yourself. You shouldn’t try to convince yourself that you’re wrong and that you need to go do this other thing because your five-year-old self wanted to.
Anyway, I bang this drum a lot because I work in academia, and I see kids who have been destroyed by these ideas. And I love getting survey responses that are like, you know, “I learned that I don’t like this in the summer, and I’m so glad I learned that, and now I’m going to do something else for the last two years of my college career.”
Liz: And that’s sort of what Tilly is saying with her students. They understand the tasks and they excel at the tasks, but she’s having trouble getting them to appreciate the big picture.
Anika: It’s a part of growing up. And again, we need to see that, instead of the people who, you know, something life-threatening happens to you and to you when you become a vigilante superhero who saves the day, we get a lot of those stories. We need the stories that are just about coming into your own. And that’s also coming of age, turns out.
Liz: And also changing your focus. You know, Paul talks about it in terms of finding a new legacy, but really, he’s an incredibly intelligent man who needs a new challenge. He needs to learn, and he needs to do things.
And Saru is also looking at a literal change in his life, going from being Action Saru to Ambassador Saru. And T’Rina proposing, which I’m very into. They were very flirty. And I’m like, I never want to see them kiss. I don’t want to watch them hold hands because Saru’s hands are gross. But in principle, I ship it.
Anika: They’re just so sweet. They’re so sweet. They’re somehow both a cute little high school romance and a mature couple at the same time. And I’m into that.
Liz: It’s definitely an ageless romance. I think because they’re both adults, but you definitely get the feeling this is maybe their first serious relationship. Certainly it is for Saru, and I think it’s hinted that it is for T’Rina.
Someone on, I think, Mastodon was saying that Discovery does not believe in the idea that it’s lonely to be the captain. You know, the captain is a fluid role that passes from person to person. And yes, it’s a position of great responsibility, but they’re also not excluded from the heart of the ship the way, say, Picard was. And I agree, but I also like Michael’s reaction to finding out that Jett Reno gave Saru a nickname that she is only just hearing about.
Anika: Yeah, because I think that the idea that it’s lonely at the top and that the captain has to be separate from the crew, which has been true for all of the series, that’s part of the military-esque part of Starfleet because in order for the captain to make the decisions for everyone, they have to have distance. I think that that’s where it starts.
Liz: And season 4 tells us that Michael struggles with that. And the fact that she doesn’t have that distance is as much a strength as a weakness.
Anika: Right, and so it’s sort of like, you know, it gets back to this, are we explorers or are we soldiers? Which is something that really Discovery has been dealing with the whole time.
Liz: Absolutely.
Anika: That’s one of their main themes, which is really interesting to see in Star Trek because it’s something that people talk about. Like the fandom discusses and debates it, but it’s not something that is really on screen, on screen. It is very pseudo military science explorers.
Liz: No one really questions that.
Anika: And no one questions it, exactly. And so I really like that Discovery sort of grapples with that and that we’re trying to see, you know, this whole journey has been about Michael finding the balance. And, you know, we started with Lorca, who was obviously the pseudo military, like he was fully military–
Liz: Yeah, there was no pseudo.
Anika: –Captain, that was his whole thing. And yet it was wrong, you know, for the ideals of Starfleet. And that’s interesting. And going from that to Michael finding a way to incorporate Rayner, who is within the Lorca … You know, he’s a Lorca-esque character, although way better as a person. And so bringing that into it, and realizing that it is the other side that balances her, but also that she can show him the parts of her ideals that are within him. And that are also the parts of, you know, he’s friends with Vance.
Rayner is a really interesting character in that he has that vulnerable part in the second episode. And she’s like, why didn’t you say this to, like everyone at the tribunal, we wouldn’t have listened to you if you said this to them. And he was like, well, you know, that’s why I didn’t say it, because I didn’t want to win based on like being real. I don’t know. It’s interesting to see them go from Lorca to Rayner and Michael learning.
Liz: Yeah, yeah. And I think as Saru says, Michael needs a foil. And that’s not Saru anymore, because they’re completely on the same side. Their relationship has come such a long way.
Anika: Saru was never good at being a foil for her, because even when they were fighting, like, which like all of the entire first season, I remember being annoyed, I didn’t like Saru because all they did was bicker and have the same conversation over and over, which was like, “you hurt me and I’m sad about it. And now I can’t trust you.” And I was like, okay, you said that four times now. Can we move on from here?
Because that wasn’t being a foil. That was just being accusatory and like, it was like bad blood between siblings or something. It wasn’t someone who was going to stand up to her. Saru actually wasn’t really capable of standing up to Lorca or Michael.
Liz: No, and I think it’s actually season two that brings him to that point, even before the Vaharai and him losing his ganglia. Saru has come a long way and I kind of get my back up when people say, “oh, Saru was the best character on Discovery,” because obviously that’s Michael. And I think sometimes when I see people say that, it feels a bit like a dog whistle that the only straight white guy in the show is the best character. But at the same time, Saru really is an amazing character. And I think he is an iconic figure in the way that Data or Odo or Seven were, as a really interesting outsider figure. And I think Reyner is also going to be incredibly popular, because he is a straight white guy, unless he’s not straight, in which case people will be very angry. But I like…
Anika: “They tricked us!” Look, I love Callum Keith Rennie. And I was into Rayner being, you know, the… Like he is… He and Michael are very alike actually.
Liz: I was going to say, I expected Rayner to be a Lorca figure. And as someone who has written a lot of fic about the version of Prime Lorca that lives in my head, I was completely up for that. And I do think that there is a little of that. But he is really a foil for Michael. And he is very much in a similar place to where she was at the beginning of the series. And it is very funny watching the people who complain about Michael fall all over themselves to praise Reyner.
Anika: Yeah. I mean, this is another sort of character type that they have been playing with. You know, the villain in Star Trek: Beyond was this type of character. And I like the idea that there are people who get left behind by Star Trek ideals.
And that is what I am saying is that Michael is the person who is going to be like, “no, you do belong here,” because, you know, I said in my Raffi essay, which you can all read in Star Trek Quarterly Spring issue, I say that Raffi is so great because she includes more people in Star Trek. She says, hey, there’s a place for people who aren’t perfect and who have edges. And that’s important because not everybody is Picard. Shocking, I know. And Michael is saying there’s also a place for the Reyners, who are the people who are maybe too quick to fight and who are too willing to cross lines because they have been traumatized by war.
Liz: Or even that they came up at a time when that was the appropriate and best response.
Anika: When it was necessary.
Liz: And now they’re having trouble adjusting because that’s changed. And that kind of, obviously Rayner is on a far different part of the spectrum to Idris Elba’s character in Star Trek: Beyond, but that was another person who couldn’t change with the times.
Anika: And as someone who has done a lot, who’s read a lot about veterans and the difficulties of coming back home from that, because you’re taught to do this horrible thing. Even if you never do it, you still have this…
Liz: No, the whole point of military training is to strip away the part of you that hesitates.
Anika: And then you’re thrown into society, and I will only speak for America, but we don’t treat our veterans very well. And we do not provide the foundation of care that is required to get past that.
Liz: No, no. It’s just like, welcome home, go be a civilian.
Anika: I understand why Vance and Rillak and friends have to push Rayner out, but I appreciate the story of Michael saying, “no, we can make a place for him, actually.”
Liz: Yeah. And I like that, again, rank is very fluid and that he is another captain who is becoming a first officer. Because Discovery, you know, we talk about how there’s not enough of a hierarchy in Strange New Worlds, but Discovery maybe has even less of a hierarchy, and it doesn’t bother me at all.
Liz: Because Discovery is a different type of ship with a different type of crew.
Liz: Do we like Moll and L’ak?
Anika: Again, they to me come out of a different series.
Liz: Yes.
Anika: They belong in Killjoys, they belong in Star Wars Rebels, which is not a complaint necessarily. It doesn’t quite fit my worldview.
I don’t really have much of a read on L’ak. He is devoted to Moll and he doesn’t really want to be doing this. That’s what I get out of him, which could get interesting. But right now, I mean, he’s clearly not — she’s in charge. And Moll is made for me. That’s my character. Oh, look, there she is. Secret, horrible childhood back story related to Book. I’m into it. I’m very excited for Book’s long last sister being saved from the dark side.
Liz: I’m also like, does she is she going to want to be your sister, Book? I understand that you are also hungry for family, but you’re making an assumption here.
Anika: Absolutely not. But I was getting, if you watched Ahsoka, they look the same.
Liz: Oh, yes, yes.
Anika: The Padawan.
Liz: Ray Stevenson’s Padawan.
Anika: They’re the same. I already said that that Book was a Star Wars character.
Anika: So it’s fine. They’re going with me and they’re playing along.
Liz: And I also feel like we did not see the year that Michael was a courier, but the whole courier milieu that they’re part of is clearly completely, intentionally antithetical to Starfleet and the Federation.
Anika: Right, right.
Liz: And that type of Star Trek-ishness.
Anika: Which is cool. I’m into it. So yeah, I’m really excited for them all. I have recently watched Arcane. And she also reminds me of that. Because it is very sisters, and class differences and piracy and terrorism are all important to Arcane. So I was getting a lot of like, ooh, these are things that I’m interested in. I’ve always been interested in. And that I’m re-interested in right now, that I’m thinking about, so I’m excited for her story. I want to trust that Discovery will do it correctly. I really want to. They have a better track record–
Liz: I was going to say!
Anika: –Than other places. But I am just so scared. I am currently being burned by, you know, being loved and I’m scared.
Liz: Yeah. I love Moll. Same as you, I was reminded of the Padawan character in Ahsoka. They do have the same hair, but I’m not mad about that.
Anika: They look the same.
Liz: Yeah. I think that it’s going to be very, very identifiably mid 2020s. Like, looking back in 10 years. And that’s okay. All Star Trek looks like a product of its time. I just wish that they had done a quick Google, because in Australian slang, Moll is like slang for slut or sex worker. It’s sort of a self-deprecating word that women use amongst ourselves.
Anika: It’s a, it’s an old timey gangster. Which I’m pretty sure also means…
Liz: Oh, absolutely.
Anika: But because it’s old timey, it doesn’t come across the same way.
Liz: Yeah. No, it’s still used here in sort of a, an ironic way. You know, you might say, “Game on, molls” to your girlfriends as you go out to the clubs or whatever. So yeah, should have googled, guys. Sorry.
And then our other new character is Tilly’s crush. I think from the credits might be Lieutenant Jax. He seems nice.
Anika: I know, he seems nice. I mean, it was cute. It was cute. That felt like setting up for the other series more, than anything else. But its sweet. I’m gonna be me, and say I was more shipping Tilly and Vance.
Liz: Oh, yeah. Unfortunately, they have more chemistry than basically anyone else.
Anika: I feel so badly about it. But I was super into Tilly and Vance at the end of last season. And then she didn’t get to interact with anyone else one on one. Like, she was interacting with Michael, but there were gaps between them. And they were like, you know, going against Starfleet together. And I was just like, this is my fate. And I feel badly because they’re trying so hard to convince me that he’s a happily married family man.
Liz: Sure. He has a wife. You wouldn’t know her. She goes to another Starfleet in Canada.
Anika: And then it’s like, look, here’s a picture. It’s the T’Pel problem.
Liz: Oh, yeah.
Anika: I guess that I’m supposed to care about her, but I don’t because she’s just a picture on the wall.
Liz: She needs a name and also dialogue. All I need is one scene to make her a person, and then maybe I will ship Vance/Tilly less. Maybe I will assume that Vance and his wife have an arrangement and they saw Tilly across the Federation headquarters and really liked her vibe.
Anika: Look, I am very unopposed to shipping coworkers who are married. So I guess I will just continue and … apologies.
Liz: And obviously, there’s an age gap. She’s 950 years older than him, but you know.
Anika: It’s fine.
Liz: Yeah, we can make it work. I also don’t hate Michael/Rayner. I will definitely look into that fic. I think Michael/Book is end game, and I love it. I want them to fall in love again because they kind of did that off screen in season 3. And as I have complained, Star Trek in this era doesn’t really do UST very well.
Anika: Really.
Liz: But while they’re on a break, I am very into Michael Rayner. I guiltily shipped Michael/Lorca before the reveal in season 1, and then Michael/Prime Lorca afterwards. Michael can have a craggy older boyfriend.
Anika: It is part of Star Trek lore to ship the captain and the XO.
Liz: Right. Right. And I never did ship Michael Saru. I know people do, but I’m like, he’s a horse. So…
Anika: Again, they’re brother and sister. Sorry. That’s just how it is.
Liz: No, no. Normally I’d go, look, just because they’re like brother and sister doesn’t mean you can’t ship them. Let’s not get into purity culture and antis and all that. But no, there was just nothing there for me to grab on to.
Anika: That’s just their chemistry.
Liz: Yeah. No shame to the people who did ship it or do ship it.
Anika: No, it’s fine.
Liz: Happy for them.
Anika: They can shame us for Michael/Rayner.
Liz: Look, what is, what is fandom except people judging one another for which characters they want to kiss? Speaking of, we’re going to Trill next week. Maybe Adira and Grey will finally get to make out.
Anika: I am expecting them to actually break up.
Liz: Yeah, actually.
Anika: What is being projected to me is that Adira needs to let go and work on themselves, and figure out who they are on their own before they have a beautiful romance. And they can come back to Grey after the fact.
Liz: You know, I actually think that that is healthy for them, because these are orphans who basically grew up together. And part of Adira’s arc in season four was that they do struggle to connect to people that they haven’t known their whole lives. And I don’t want Adira and Grey to be together because they’re codependent and incapable of being with anyone else. I want them to be together because they choose.
Anika: Exactly. And so it’s fine, as long as we get Hugh and Paul, like, married scenes. I know that that’s boring. But I just, I don’t want the queer romances to just be erased.
Liz: No, no, absolutely. And I think that Adira and Grey breaking up doesn’t negate their queerness. Like, they’re still … they’re still people who love each other.
Anika: I mean, Grey, we’re never going to see Grey again. And Adira, there’s no one on Discovery that I see Adira with, and especially because that would be the wrong arc. Like, you don’t break up with someone in order to immediately start dating someone else if the point of it is for them to find their own footing. And so I’m saying I just want to see some… Maybe Rayner will be queer after all.
Liz: Look, just as I headcanoned Lorca as a bisexual disaster, I am happy to headcanon Rayner the same way.
Anika: I mean, again, all apologies to Mrs Vance, but I also ship Vance with Rayner, so.
Liz: No, I’m sorry. Yeah. No complaints. Once again, if they want us to get behind Mrs Vance or Dr Vance or whatever, then they need to make her a person. Ambassador Vance. Archbishop Vance. I was going to say Pope Vance, but we know that the Pope is Kovich, so.
Anika: Is Kovich, yes.
Liz: Thank you for listening to Antimatter Pod. You can find our show notes at antimatterpod.com, including links to our social media, credits for our theme music, and transcripts of our episodes. You can follow us on Facebook, Tumblr, Instagram, and Blue Sky, all at Antimatter Pod and on Mastodon at @antimatterpod@tenforward.social.
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