Anika and Liz go out on a training exercise that definitely won’t go horribly wrong! We’re discussing Star Trek: Starfleet Academy‘s “Come, Let’s Away”, and talking about…
- We really like how the season slowed down and gave us some slice of life stories and heavy characterisation — and now, at the midpoint of the season, everything changes
- This is a great episode for exploring Nahla, but Anika has had enough of Nus Braka
- It’s time to face facts: Admiral Vance is pretty, but he’s not clever
- Nus Braka versus Osyraa: we firmly believe the only reason he’s as powerful as he is now is that her death created a vacuum
- Comics and popular culture as art, as inspiration, as propaganda; uh, is it bad when your fun Star Trek for teens starts referencing Grave of the Fireflies?
- (But it’s weird that Tales from the Frontier had no female characters, right? RIGHT?)
- Women’s voices are heavily policed and criticised, so Tarima’s power is interesting
- Vance is a 2020s centrist: he likes the idea of having ideals, but isn’t quite sure how to go about putting them in action. Is that unfair? Will Liz ever be able to talk about Vance without bringing up Rayner? Is it wrong to ship Vance/Braka?
Transcript
(Please note this transcript was generated automatically by Apple Podcasts, and though it was edited by a human, some errors may remain.)
Liz: Welcome to Antimatter Pod, a Star Trek podcast where we discuss fashion, feminism, subtext and subspace, hosted by Anika and Liz. Today, we’re discussing Star Trek: Starfleet Academy, “Come, Let’s Away.” Shit is getting real.
Anika: It’s such a breezy title for this episode.
Liz: Yeah, we open with the glowy golden romance montage and the Olivia Dean song, and it’s all nice and romantic and very Imzadi-coded. And then the cannibals and people dying and Tarima and everything. It’s so great. I love it. Next to “Vox In Excelso,” this is my favorite episode of the screeners we got so far.
Anika: I like that they had some quieter episodes. And this one has a real impact because they haven’t been in mortal danger the entire time. This danger felt more real, I think, because of that. If it had gone the pilot to this, there would be nothing. We needed there to be build up and to get to know the characters and to have downtime before we got back into this kind of stuff.
Liz: Yeah, we’ve had slice of life stories and shenanigans and a couple of character focused episodes. And now, we’re in a position for the big tonal shift as I presume we go into the second half of the season and a general ramping up of intensity. And I think structurally that’s really solid.
Anika: Yes, which, given all of our comments about the modern Treks which have shorter seasons, so it’s really hard to figure out the correct pacing to keep momentum going. This is a breath of fresh air.
Liz: I think they’re very closely following the Save the Cat story structure, and that’s just a straight three act structure with certain events happening at certain points. And it’s like, oh, it’s the middle of the story, it’s the middle of the season, something terrible and completely situation-altering is going to happen. Oh, hey, here’s Nus Braka and a training exercise gone terribly wrong.
Save the Cat is criticized as being a bit cliché, but I think if you’re a modern Star Trek and your sister series have traditionally had trouble with arc structure, this is a solid way to do it.
Anika: Exactly. It’s not like I didn’t like those other Star Treks, but one of my main complaints every time was that the pacing was so off, and that it just made me feel the wrong ways at different times, and the story didn’t make sense, and they were always stops and starts instead of a continuous through line. And so going back to something that is simplistic, if there’s a reason that story arc works, the three-act structure is good actually.
Liz: They’ve gone back to basics and they really needed to. And I understand that Star Trek: Discovery had problems because for several years they had a different episode count every season, and also different showrunners. But it is wild that it took them until season five to pace out the season arc properly, and Star Trek: Discovery was much more serialized than Star Trek: Strange New Worlds.
Anika: Yes. Yes.
Liz: Anyway, I really like this episode. I love that we do start with Tarima and Caleb together, and talking about their previous romantic and sexual experiences, and Tarima’s very, very funny story about hooking up with a Deltan.
And I think it turns out that the reason that Deltans in Starfleet have to take a quote unquote oath of celibacy is not because they’re so amazingly super sexy. It’s because sex is so public and awkward and uncomfortable and you have to sing a song.
Anika: It’s all crazy. Yeah. Yes. I loved how it dropped us into their little romance. It was building off of last week and drops us into know that their relationship is important to this week’s story. And it was just it was so sweet and young and pretty and just, you know, it’s very YA and beautiful.
Liz: It felt very YA in that there’s quite a lot of sex, but it’s not very explicit. I know people are going to complain that we see side boob or naked back or whatever, but this isn’t even as explicit as, say, Deanna and what’s his face in “The Price”. It’s just sex and cuddling and soft focus and golden light. It has that nostalgic glow that you get looking back at your first love. I said it was Imzadi-coded and I think that’s where they’re going.
Anika: Yes, exactly. They were getting to know each other and in different ways, they had their banter about sex and stories and then her sharing the mind-speak and all of that. And how it trips them up. And I was super into that. I’m always super into that stuff.
Liz: So they both have issues with secrets and control and privacy and I do think that’s a really compelling point of conflict between the two of them. When Caleb freaks out that she has seen into his mind and pulls back from her, that felt a lot more natural to the story than their argument in the second episode just after they met. Because this is obviously a very sensitive point for him and he really doesn’t want to go around trauma dumping on everyone he knows because what happened with him and his mother is none of their business.
Anika: Yeah. I love the cultural mishaps. I just think it’s really using that they were brought up in such different ways. And that Betazoid culture is different and she in particular is even more different than that. And it is going to be an issue, but I was glad that she stood up for herself and said, I’m not being weird because I’m weird. I’m being weird because this is who I am. It’s just the way that we are. And it’s how I know how to interact with the world.
And those are the kinds of things that I think often times Star Trek relationships, even if they include aliens, they’re very human-centric and they don’t play off of this stuff.
Liz: I was just going to say that Deanna is effectively a human with light superpowers most of the time. And we only get a glimpse into Betazoid culture and norms when we see Lwaxana, and it’s played as a joke, and “look at this terrible woman who doesn’t know how to behave”.
I do think that Star Trek: Starfleet Academy has lightly retconned Betazoid abilities. But I also think that characters with the level of telepathic power of Lwaxana, as regulars, would simply be story breaking. So I’m not mad about the retcon.
I also just want to flag that Caleb doesn’t say it, but I do think he was a virgin before Tarima. She asked about his previous relationships and he sort of goes, oh, you know, normal human stuff.
Anika: Yeah.
Liz: And it’s like, sir. Yeah.
Anika: He does.
Liz: There’s nothing to be ashamed of, dude.
Anika: When would he have explored his sexuality? When would that have happened while he was on the run and or in prison since he was eight? I just, it wouldn’t, you know?
Liz: Yeah. I definitely don’t think he’s explored his sexuality in any positive way before now.
Anika: Yeah, exactly. Right. If anything happened, it was not good, most likely.
Liz: No, no. And I kind of hope that stays in the realm of AO3 because I just want to protect my boy.
Anika: Oh, poor Caleb. I love him.
Liz: For Tarima, her safe mind space is a field of flowers. And for Caleb, safety is a robot bear. Their lives have been so different.
Anika: And it’s heartbreaking for both of them. When you know the context of both of those things, it’s really, it’s like, oh.
Liz: Tarima has grown up with a loving family and material security, but she’s also afraid of herself. And she feels this terrible guilt about what she’s capable of and what she has done.
It’s a princess and scoundrel relationship, but it’s not just a princess and scoundrel relationship, though I do actually need them now to dress up as Han and Leia for Halloween. She’s clearly good with a braid.
So anyway, my point is they both have complicated heritages and complicated stories.
Anika: That’s what you need.
Liz: Yeah.
Anika: For this story, that’s what we need.
Liz: Yeah. I think it’s going to be a lot of fandom is going to write it off as, oh, more teen drama, more teen romance, but actually, I think this is a really meaty story. And I think we should show respect to teens and young people as characters. It’s just me and my hot take.
Anika: I feel like this particular episode is written for Holly Hunter and Paul Giamatti. But I care so much more about Caleb, Tarima, and Ocam and then all of the other kids and then the adults. They’re a very distant last for me.
Liz: Don’t worry. I love this episode in part because it is the first Nahle episode, proper Nahle episode that we’ve had.
Anika: Yeah. And I mean, she’s amazing. And I love everything that happens.
Liz: And she’s such an interesting character. And I also find Nus Braka a lot more interesting after this. I think Paul Giamatti’s performance is a lot more measured and nuanced and layered. But also, I think it’s really a salute to the quality of this show, that I care about all generations of characters. And I even care about the Doctor. Imagine that.
Anika: What’s going on with him is in the background, but it’s obvious. I’m interested. Just so while we’re on the subject of Paul Giamatti, I will give him all his flowers. I think he did incredibly well in this episode. But legitimately, despite the fact that there were two Oscar-level performances happening, I really just kept wanting them to go back to the kids.
Okay, I felt badly about it because I was like, huh, this is really good, but I just really don’t care. I think part of it was that it seemed very obvious to me that it was all a ploy. And so it was like, all that mattered was the two of them playing off of each other. And it just went on a little too long for my attention span.
Liz: No, I understand that. And I think that most people are going to feel differently. So I’m kind of glad that you’re here to be the outlier and to present.
Anika: I need to be the one person who’s like, can we go back to my sweet Vulcan son?
Liz: Oh, B’Avi, B’Avi. Anyway, I do think it’s interesting. Let’s talk about Nus Braka and his whole thing.
I found it very interesting that season five of Star Trek: Discovery and season one of Star Trek: Starfleet Academy are made in the mid-2020s. And they’ve both given us villains or antagonists who are both sort of overbearing, entitled, misogynistic, but also pathetic small men. And that feels very intentional and very responsive to the moment in history in which we find ourselves. In contrast to, for example, Star Trek: Strange New Worlds going, this black man, ultimate evil.
Anika: But tell us how you really feel about it, Liz.
Liz: Yes. I have tried very hard not to make these podcasts about how much better Star Trek: Starfleet Academy is than Star Trek: Strange New Worlds, but the contrast in villains and the types of storytelling involved are very interesting to me. And I do feel like Nus Braka really is a 2025-2026 villain. Exploitative, he’s capitalist, he’s deeply misogynistic, and he doesn’t actually come out and say that he despises women. You can just tell by the way he speaks to Nahle.
Anika: Right. Oh, God.
Liz: And it’s great.
Anika: He was talking all the time and she was silent, and that was a tactic. And I knew that was obvious. And it was amazing. And again, the tiny little things the micro expressions that she was performing, especially when his whole thing is so broad.
Liz: Bombastic.
Anika: Yeah. It was incredible. But I also, I was just like, I can’t listen to you anymore. He was so annoying.
Liz: I don’t disagree. It’s so interesting to me that he’s actively trying to goad her into a Lanthanite trauma loop because that’s a very clever tactic. And I think it even partially works because she spots that he wants something more, but she doesn’t spot the trap. And okay, Admiral Vance is very pretty, but he’s not very bright. And so I completely buy that he didn’t spot the trap. But I feel like if Nahle had not been managing her mental health to such a degree, she would have spotted it.
And so Nus Braka’s tactic is very successful. And I like that. I like that we get to explore Lanthanite language and psychology and learn more about them in general, because previously they’re mostly a joke.
Anika: Right, it’s great. I loved everything that happened with Nahle in this episode because it really filled in her colors. And yes, that she is not just this very put together person who cares too much and not at all at the same time. There were some flaws and negative ways that she was carrying too much and not at all in this particular one. And that’s great. We need that in order to make her a full person.
Liz: Yes.
Anika: So it was a really good episode for giving us more Nahle. And I completely agree with you on poor Charlie. It’s not his fault. For however many years, he was in charge of one small thing. That is now trying to be something much bigger and wider and more meaningful.
Liz: I don’t think it’s necessarily that he’s intrinsically bad at it, but he doesn’t quite have the skill sets or experience yet. So in a way, this is in some ways like his own learning experience.
And I think we saw this in season three of Star Trek: Discovery with his negotiations with Osyraa too, where he’s very good and he’s frankly much better at negotiating with her under those circumstances. But there also aren’t a bunch of kids’ lives on the table in that situation.
Nus Braka — I feel like they’re about equally evil, but Nus’s whole thing is a little bit more psychological. He comes in all bombastic and he’s talking all the time, but actually he’s also thinking all the time and he’s thinking about how to manipulate you.
Anika: Yes.
Liz: I would 100% read a comic about the rivalry between Osyraa and Nus Braka.
Anika: Oh my gosh. That would be awesome. At the very beginning, when Nus first arrives and he’s drinking all their alcohol.
Liz: Specifically their tequila.
Anika: Yes. That was the moment where I was like, Vance is so outclassed in this particular situation because he was trying to placate him with, yes, I’m going to give into your ridiculous demand to try all of our tequila so that you start off on our side and we’re going for it. It’s when people try to placate Trump and it’s not going to work out.
Liz: Yes.
Anika: You’re never going to win. So why are you giving up before anything even happens? And it’s just like, no, no, no, no. This is nonsense. He’s just making you dance for him. And I’m so sorry to Admiral Vance for casting him in, I don’t know, the Chuck Schumer role, but it just feels — it was just smart. It was a smart way to start that scene, yes, just let’s show off how poorly this is going to go.
Liz: And I think that Vance is an establishment guy and he is a norms guy and he is always the guy who follows the rules and believes in the playbook. And Braka and Osyraa before her would just throw the rules out the window. The reason he needs to get under Nahle’s skin as soon as possible is because she’s going to see through that.
Anika: Yeah. Do we want to talk about the plot, the training exercise, aka attack, aka trap, aka attack?
Liz: Yes. Honestly, if this was just a regular training exercise episode, I would have been completely enthralled because the world building of the Miyazaki as a pre-Burn starship that was testing a warp alternative — “why didn’t they try to develop alternatives to warp?”
Anika: They did.
Liz: Did you watch Star Trek: Discovery? Did you pay attention?
Anyway, that sort of training exercise is totally in character for the series and could have been a compelling plot on its own without the pirates. Really enjoyed it.
It gives us a better idea of what the War College is about, that they really are just Starfleet without the intellectual background. And that still makes them super important.
I’ve seen fic about teams of crack specialist Starfleet rescue squads, whose whole job is to go into dangerous situations and pull people out. That’s the War College.
Anika: Right. I was sad that we didn’t get any switching out or get into the configurations of the different teams.
Liz: Yeah.
Anika: Because plot happened, which, you know, I guess, plot has to happen. But I was into the training exercise and I don’t like the pirates. So I was sad that that’s what we got. But it was great to have an adventure as well.
I don’t want Kyle to be hurt, but I liked that Kyle was hurt and Jay-Den was taking care of him. And that Kyle, despite being hurt, still got to fight and prove his War College mettle.
Liz: Yes, yes. I think it’s so easy to put Kyle in the soft flower boy box. But he is also very much of the War College. He’s just not overtly a douchebag about it, like some of his classmates. The contrast between him and his peers is great. But it also means that he’s a good student and probably a better leader than the others. Although obviously, B’Avi is the leader. And I just think he needed to … yeah.
Anika: B’Avi got to become a comic book nerd right before he died. I was very sad because I was like, you’re making him a dreamer and then you’re gonna kill him off. I was so sad. I was upset about it. That was not fair.
Liz: I liked it because I think it’s cool that comics as a medium survive into the 32nd century. And I really knew you would be all over this, into the whole comics and pop culture as inspiration and propaganda and history. It makes the Star Trek universe feel very lived in. It’s so good. Of course, Caleb despises the propaganda element and is the only one who recognizes it. But of course, he also read it.
Anika: Right. I mean, that’s what I’m saying. The fact that they both read it and they never got to actually talk about it. I was like, no. I understand that in this day and age, we have to have all of our sacrificial lambs. But obviously, I care about B’Avi, so it worked.
Liz: Yeah.
Anika: But I’m still mad about it because there was so much potential.
Liz: You know, I am not an advocate for longer seasons. But imagine if we had been able to do this episode straight as the training exercise and it’s very tense and maybe something goes wrong and, you know, lives are in danger but it’s not an external danger. And then we revisit the exercise later in the season and that’s where it goes terribly wrong.
Anika: Oh, yeah. Oh, stories are my whole thing. How stories shape society and personality and how we are always all creating our own stories of our lives. I mean, everything about all of that, the fact that it was called out as inspirational propaganda and historical record was… And it was all the same story. That was very powerful to me because that’s exactly it.
Liz: Let’s talk about the fact that Tales from the Frontier doesn’t appear to have any female characters whatsoever. I love that it looks like the AOS comics, the Kelvinverse comics, but it looks a little too much like the Kelvinverse comics, if you know what I mean.
Anika: When also like Tales from the Frontier, I was like, is this real? And I legitimately was like, is this like some kind of in-between Star Trek: Enterprise and TOS? Which I guess is the Star Trek: Strange New Worlds thing, it’s just very — it felt, and it was called Tales from the Frontier. I don’t know. I was just like, what is this? But yeah, I’m sure they did it on purpose too. They were very generic, but also sort of vaguely Kirk, Spock, Pike-like.
Liz: Yeah, yeah.
Anika: They’re both generic and familiar at the same time.
Liz: I do think it’s very funny that Federation propaganda looks like Star Trek: Strange New Worlds.
Anika: Right. It’s almost like it’s either really smart, or they don’t know that they did that. And it could very much be either way.
Liz: Yeah, I am curious and I hope one of the big sites does a deep dive into the prop design there, because I have questions and concerns.
Anika: I assume that it is supposed to look like TOS AOS because it does, you know? And if they had a woman, then it would be a Black woman, and then it would be maybe too much. I mean, I don’t think it would have been too much. If you’re gonna do it, just go all the way. But that’s my only explanation for there not being any women, is that Uhura would be too recognizable.
Liz: It’s just funny because this series is so mindful in so many respects, and so much detail goes into stuff like the information on screens in the background. And yet…
Anika: Yeah, and yet. And also the cover, the Tales from the Frontier, that cover didn’t go along with the interior. They looked like two different kinds of book to me.
Liz: I mean, that’s just comics, right? Especially Star Trek comics.
Anika: That’s true. That’s a fair point. But, you know, it doesn’t have to be that way. Just saying.
Liz: I mean, it doesn’t have to be that way, but for some reason, for Star Trek comics, it is. Speaking of the media tie-ins, the Miyazaki, I assume, is named after the great Japanese animator behind Studio Ghibli.
Anika: It has to be.
Liz: Anyway. Yeah, yeah. And I find that very interesting because Ghibli’s work is like, “oh, it’s so cozy. It’s so comforting.” And it’s like, really? Because a lot of their stories are really, really dark. And I feel like that’s sort of the way a lot of people write off Star Trek: Starfleet Academy as, oh, it’s just teen drama. It’s 90210 in space. And actually this is a very dark storyline in many ways.
Anika: They had to have done this on purpose. The fact that they did Miyazaki, which absolutely references — I did this, I was like, I’m going to look and see if there’s some, you know, general from a war or something. There is not. There is only one Miyazaki. And they’re animated. So everyone’s like, oh, they’re for kids. And Disney put them out in America for…
Liz: Yeah. So it gets put into that basket.
Anika: So it’s even more so that it’s just for kids. But I love those movies. They are so profound. And they are absolutely coming of age stories. But they are not childish. They can even be for children, but they’re not childish.
Liz: And particularly what I assume is the reference to Grave of the Fireflies, a movie about the bombing of Hiroshima. Yeah. Which I haven’t seen because, okay, my big nerd shame is that I’m not a massive Miyazaki fan, but also everyone says that movie is deeply traumatizing. And so, yeah.
Anika: Do not let your children watch Grave of the Fireflies. The way it was marketed, if you go into HBO and you look at the whole collection, and it just looks like, you know, and I’m like, you know, Kiki’s Delivery Service is about depression. And Spirited Away is really traumatic if you think about any of it for too long. And even My Neighbour Totoro, which whenever I’m sad, I watch. But it’s literally about a mother who has a terminal illness. There’s a lot going on, you know?
Liz: It’s not just catbus shenanigans.
Anika: Exactly. But Grave of the Fireflies, there’s a pretty little poster with fireflies and children. It’s like, no, do not be fooled by this. It’s barely for adults, but it’s definitely not for children.
Liz: So should we be alarmed that we have this episode which references Grave of the Fireflies and ends with the villain stealing an unknown experimental weapon?
Anika: And killing off an unknown amount of people to do it.
Liz: Yes, and B’Avi who is, you know, a young person, a child, and Lieutenant Commander Tomov, who is at least an adult. But yeah.
Anika: Not only is the Miyazaki stuff, but comics are another thing that everyone says, oh, they’re just childish. They’re just for kids. Get over yourself, adults. Why are you still into? Even the mainstream popularity of the MCU has been like, oh, why are we still into these teen boy power fantasy nonsense? And it’s like, okay, have you seen Iron Man 3? It’s not a teen boy power fantasy.
Liz: But also, whenever comics are brought out for, say, a younger, more diverse, teen female audience, comics fans freak out the way Star Trek fans have reacted to Star Trek: Starfleet Academy.
Anika: Absolutely. So it feels very on the nose that they were like, we’re gonna put in Studio Ghibli, we’re gonna put in comic books. They straight up quote The Hunger Games when they do a close up on one of those comic things. And I was like, that’s not an accident.
Liz: And The Hunger Games is another piece of media for young people, which is often dismissed and widely misunderstood and reduced to a love triangle story when it’s actually a lot more than that. And a lot more substantial as a work of science fiction than that.
Anika: And incredibly traumatic.
Liz: Yeah. It’s all just so mindful that it makes it even weirder that there are no women in Tales from the Frontier.
Anika: Right. Right. Exactly. But so. So, yeah, I mean, I love that stuff. And this is, again, my own bias because I love those stories. I love coming of age stories. I love stories that appear to be whimsical and are actually devastating. So much depth and — yeah. That are devastating. That destroy you. That’s my favorite kind of story. And so of course, I am going to gravitate towards the young people’s side of this.
And I mean, Tarima, again, talk about a character made for me in every way and how sad she is when she’s like, you’re going to hate me for this, but I have to do it anyway. And I’ve seen that story so many times, and it’s always the young girl who looks like she couldn’t hurt a fly. And I’m so thrilled to have it in Star Trek. I can’t tell you.
Liz: I know I compared them to Han and Leia earlier, but it is also Padmé and Anakin, if Padmé was secretly Force sensitive, which, I’ve seen that fic.
But also it’s Scarlet Witch, it’s Black Canary. Because I was a DC kid more than a Marvel kid, I know Black Canary pretty well. And she’s one of those superheroes who was often dismissed by fans and underrated and over-sexualized. And sometimes they just decide she shouldn’t have powers at all and all of that. And honestly, the Canary Cry is a really stupid superpower. She’s basically that machine that is brought out to make a high-pitched noise to hurt people. But yeah, it’s an interesting ability for a Betazoid to have.
Anika: And counterpoint, it’s an interesting ability for a young woman to have.
Liz: Yes, because young women’s voices are so policed.
Anika: Right. I’m a Marvel girl, and so I know Scarlet Witch and Rayner. But Dinah, of the various DC people I know, I mean, she’s one of the women that I care about. And she literally wears fishnets as part of her costume. I’m sure she’s wearing something different now. But that was something that had to be reclaimed when I was reading comics because it was like, it’s okay to be sexy. And I was like, yeah, but it’s also like, obviously this was just entirely the male gaze for like 40 years, guys. It’s not a secret.
Liz: No women were involved in the design of this character.
Anika: So for, I mean, Wanda, and I feel like I’ve talked about Wanda before, but she is constantly — she has the power to destroy the universe or remake it. And she’s not allowed — there are always these constraints on her. And they have literally done things like put a little box on her neck to try to keep her from destroying the universe. And she always has to stop herself or let herself free. And it’s like this whole thing. And I just love that story. And I’m always on the side of, yeah, you scream, girl. Let it out.
And then they gave me her brother. So Wanda Maximoff is a twin. She has her slightly older brother, Pietro, who has a far less powerful power. He’s super fast, which, you know, can again be used to make the Earth spin the other way or whatever. They’re always doing crazy stuff. But compared to I can create stuff out of nothing, yeah, to completely remake the entire universe, it’s not a great power.
Liz: Yeah.
Liz: No one is putting a little box on Pietro to control him.
Anika: And Ocam is clearly not a — he’s a regular Betazoid. But the way that he takes care of her is exactly the same. And I love it so much. My favorite part of the entire episode was the very end when she’s in a coma and he’s holding her hand. And I was like, I can’t believe this is in Star Trek. I can have this. I thought that Narek and Nerissa were special, and they are. Don’t get me wrong, my Romulannisters are still the best thing to ever have.
Liz: I’m going to float the idea that Tarima and Ocam have a much healthier relationship than Narek and Nerissa.
Anika: But this is the, as you say, healthy sibling relationship. But it’s still in my mind that they’re so close and they protect each other above all else. And especially Ocam is so protective of her.
Liz: Yeah, yeah.
Anika: I just love it.
Liz: Even to the point of defending what she did to their dad and making a joke of it. I think she probably really, really needed that when she was younger.
Anika: I love him so much. That, yes. Because that was such a, “I’m the brother who understands better than everybody else. And so I’m going to make this stupid joke and be sort of annoying so that no one is judging you about it right now. They’re just paying attention to me.”
Liz: And I’m breaking the tension.
Anika: He’s so perfect in every way. I love them so much.
Liz: A-plus siblinghood.
Anika: Oh my goodness.
Liz: I also think YA has a lot of either only children or the sibling is conveniently separated from the main story. Prim, you know, she’s not a huge character in The Hunger Games. It’s easier with fewer characters and a younger sibling is someone who can easily be taken off the table. But I really appreciate that Ocam is around in a supporting role and he’s here when the story needs him to be here. And I actually think this show has a very big cast, but also uses it effectively.
Anika: Yes. And also that he’s a presence. And even though obviously to me, the most important thing is his relationship with his sister, but he also does have — he had those moments with Sam last week. And even his silly mascot stuff, he’s a part of the group and he’s not just Tarima’s brother. He does have a personality of his own and relationships of his own, even though he’s not the focus.
Liz: And it’s really not until you see them together that you see their similarities. These are people who clearly grew up in the same household, but they’re also very different from one another.
Anika: I love them so much.
Liz: It’s so great.
Anika: It’s so great.
Liz: I need Tarima to come out of that coma, stat, because I already miss her. I should say this was the last episode for which we’ve had screeners and we haven’t received more yet. And Paramount, come through, hit me up, I need my fix.
Anika: We need to see the rest. I mean, yeah, which is, we’re so excited, right? They did really well to build this tension, interest, and I’m super invested. I feel the same way as I did when the end of the first season of Star Trek: Prodigy when Gwyn was in a coma. And I’m like, no!
Liz: Oh yeah, yeah, that mid-season break. I also feel like you remember the mid-season end of Star Trek: Discovery where we don’t know what officially yet, but they’re in the Mirror Universe. That’s when I started writing fic really intensely. So I hope that I do that for this show because I just need the inspiration to hit. I need a blorbo.
Anika: I get that.
Liz: Yeah. Speaking of blorbos though, because Nahle is so close, let’s talk about the fact that she had to Kobayashi Maru her own son. Devastating.
Anika: So we put that together with the other little tidbits that we’ve got in how she broke up with the Klingon to choose her ship and how Kelrec was angry with her for leaving Starfleet.
Liz: Yeah.
Anika: And the fact that she did leave Starfleet after the whole Caleb thing.
Liz: Yes.
Anika: If you put all of this together, it’s a very interesting picture. Of someone who was really, really devoted to Starfleet and the mission.
Liz: And lost everything to it.
Anika: And lost everything to it. But was still there. She was still there doing the job when the Caleb thing happened.
Liz: And I think that was the moment she realized she had given up her principles for Starfleet.
Anika: Yeah.
Liz: And that was a step too far. And Kelrec sees it as a betrayal. But I see it as Starfleet betraying her. As well as Caleb and everyone else that Starfleet was meant to protect.
Anika: She gave up everything for it. And it gave up nothing for her. And is actively harming people.
Liz: I think she did. She took a principled stand to reclaim her own principles. And I kind of am less interested in shipping her with Vance now, because he is the company guy and he is the Chuck Schumer. I actually think that this series should end with Vance retiring and Nahle taking over the running of Starfleet.
Anika: That would be beautiful.
Liz: Or Michael. No, I think Michael is not there yet. Michael is not ready to give up her ship.
Anika: Yeah, let her be captain. Let her be awesome.
Liz: Yeah. And we know that Star Trek: Discovery is out there doing clean up and saving people. And I remember in the first episode, they had a line up that Star Trek: Discovery was being refit and couldn’t come to their rescue. And I was like, oh, every episode, we’re going to have to take Star Trek: Discovery off the table. And that hasn’t been the case, but I’m glad that she’s still getting name checked.
Anika: Yes. To remind you that we’re still in that game.
Liz: Suck it, haters. She said, maturely.
Anika: So Nahle, the whole silent part was amazing. And then, you know, she said, I knew that if I would just listen, he would screw up.
Liz: Which I think is something that a lot of women in the workplace have done.
Anika: Yeah. Oh my goodness. But at the same time, she had to be silent and listen to him being ruinous in both of their scenes. He is pushing and pushing and pushing. And I really, there are three scenes, I think, where there is just the two of them. And in all of them, he is devastating her in different ways when he is playing and pushing and trying to get something out of her. But as you said, actually just distracting her. And then at the very end, where he just really goes for her throat. Because he can, because he’s won.
Liz: And he finally admits what we already know to be true, but he says it out loud — he hates her. He hates what she stands for and everything else. And I think part of what he hates is that she has the capacity for sacrifice and is still trying to be a good person. He wants her to be as amoral as him. If she can change, then what if he can change? And what if the world could be better?
Anika: Because there’s also sort of this interesting thing about the Furies and that they’re just in constant pain or something. Yeah, it’s one of those is that true or is it just a line? But it is interesting because I think that Braka is definitely in constant pain in certain ways. I don’t think he likes his life. As much as he’s proud of himself, he doesn’t seem happy.
Liz: No, Osyraa seemed quite happy in her life.
Anika: And he’s certainly not well-adjusted. So, and maybe he’s done so much and he’s lived in a certain way for so long. He was probably born into this.
Liz: He talks about his dad beating him, which yikes. But he tells it like it’s a funny story, but also there’s a lot of pain there.
Anika: Yeah. It’s like there is this whole sort of — there’s a person inside him. And I’m very not here for the redemption of Nus Braka. I just want to put that out there. Not interested.
Liz: I don’t think.
Anika: But I don’t think the show is either, so it’s okay.
Liz: No.
Anika: But.
Liz: I think in many ways he’s a Gul Dukat figure in that even if you offered him a path to redemption, he simply wouldn’t take it.
Anika: Right.
Liz: Because his ego wouldn’t permit it. I think part of the reason he finds Nahle’s path to redemption alarming and he hates her for it is that it requires humility on her part.
Anika: Yeah, exactly. And I think that it’s very much so that he would be a better adjusted, happier, more content person, less stressed.
Liz: And I do worry about his stress levels. My god.
Anika: And yet he refuses to do it. He’s not interested. And that makes him a more interesting villain to me.
Liz: Yeah, obviously, I love a redemption arc, but just the fact that we have a guy here who just keeps choosing to do the wrong thing because it’s convenient and psychologically and physically easy for him. That’s interesting. And again, very 2025.
Anika: Yes, very 2025. You said in your notes that you were worried for Nahle. Are you still worried? You’ve mentioned this before, that you’re worried that she’s going to be killed off.
Liz: I worry that Holly Hunter is a one season and done actor. She did four seasons of a really terrible USA crime drama. And I don’t imagine that that was — I’m hoping that she does every season of Star Trek: Starfleet Academy, but I’m also scared to get attached. I have some lingering post-traumatic Katrina Cornwell blowing up stuff to deal with.
Anika: Yeah, I mean, that’s partially why I bring it up. I’m worried for Nahle, but I’m more worried for Caleb. Not that he would be killed off, but that he would be hurt by losing her. I don’t think it would help his life.
Liz: That’s a good point. Does it serve Caleb to lose Nahle?
Anika: Yeah. I think that, you know, the reason that you kill off the mentor is to force the hero into a different position, right? That’s the purpose of killing off Obi-Wan and Gandalf and whatever. And I just, I don’t think it would serve his story at all to lose another mother figure.
Liz: When you put it that way, I think it’s more likely that Tatiana Maslany will die at the end of the season.
Anika: Yeah, I can imagine that.
Liz: Yeah, I think from what we know of the story so far, and goodness knows what’s going to happen in the next screeners. Yeah, yeah. I keep looking at the behind the scenes stuff for any sign that Holly Hunter isn’t there or hasn’t been hanging out. But honestly, everyone is really scrupulous about only posting stuff from the filming of season one. So, yeah.
I’m also a little burned by Jason Isaacs in season one of Star Trek: Discovery and Michelle Yeoh in season one of Star Trek: Discovery. And maybe it’s Star Trek: Discovery Trauma that I have.
Anika: They do, you know, modern television and Star Trek has been kind of egregious in certain ways by having big name deaths.
Liz: Yes.
Anika: So I get it. And I was just like, there was this very — at the very end again during the montage bits, Braka is talking and he says, you saved your son, but you lost everything else, you know, in this version of events. And it shows Caleb. I mean, you know, it’s just to hit you over the head with the fact that it’s Caleb that we’re talking about here. But when it showed Caleb in that moment, I was just like, I can’t — he can’t lose her. I just, I got — I was like panicking. I had almost an anxiety attack at the idea of Caleb losing Nahle at this particular point in time.
Liz: No, that makes a lot of sense. And also I think since season one of Star Trek: Discovery, Star Trek has been less interested in that sort of misdirect. So yeah, I think you’re right. I also think the only adult whose presence is confirmed for season two is Lura, because Gina Yashere said that she’s wrapping up season two. People were like, oh, she’s a big name. She’s going to quit because she doesn’t like the prosthetics. It’s too much work. It’s too expensive. And she was like, no, I’m still here.
Anika: They just want it. So maybe we all have some trauma. Yeah. They wanted a reason to not get attached or, you know.
Liz: Yeah. Maybe that’s what I’m looking for. I’m not ready to lose another blorbo, so I can’t fall in love with Nahle yet.
Anika: I get it. I think that’s —
Liz: No.
Anika: That’s what they’ve done to us.
Liz: I think your argument that at this stage of the plot, losing Nahle wouldn’t serve Caleb is correct. I think your instincts are right on there.
Anika: Okay. Let’s hope. I’m going to cling on to it with my whole heart.
Liz: Would you say you’re going to cling on to it?
Anika: I am going to cling on to it. Yes. Yeah.
Liz: Thank you.
Anika: Thank you. Thank you.
Liz: Should we move on to shipping news?
Anika: Absolutely.
Liz: This is the big Caleb/Tarima story. They’ve taken the next step in their relationship, it immediately falls apart. I do love it. I really, I don’t ship it in the sense that I’m obsessed with it, but I think it’s a really well-executed YA romance.
Anika: It’s a great YA romance, and I always love a psychic bond. Psychic bonds all over it. Yes, yes, yes. That’s also from the X-Men, and I will forever be here for a psychic bond. So, A++ on that.
Liz: I do want a flash forward into the future, where Caleb is the first officer on, I guess, the USS Enterprise, some further letter of the alphabet, and Tarima comes on board as the new security chief or whatever, and they have angsty tension.
Anika: Yes, please.
Liz: Caleb can grow a beard if he wants. I don’t know how that would work for him, but I think he’s very good looking, so he can try.
Anika: He could pull it off.
Liz: Yeah. Then we have Jay-Den and Kyle, and we’re talking about how great it is that Kyle gets to be the soldier, and he describes himself as a soldier, which I think is a bit sexy, and I think Jay-Den thinks it too. But Jay-Den also gets to be the medical student or the pre-med student that he is, and I just really like their vibe. Again, I don’t ship it, but I think it’s well-executed.
Anika: They’re so cute.
Liz: I am no longer concerned about queerbaiting, and so I’m settling in to enjoy a slow burn romance.
Anika: Nice. Yeah.
Anika: They’re precious.
Liz: Yeah. Yeah. Darem and Genesis, I’m not really shipping them at this point. I feel like Darem is very much distracted by Jay-Den, and I’m kind of okay with him no longer hitting on every girl because he was very heterosexually flirtatious in the first couple of episodes. Yes. Now, they’re a team and they’re giving each other credit and fist bumps and yeah.
Anika: I mainly put this on here because I wanted to tell you that I am now fully on board with the comparison to our version of Cornwell and Lorca because I was like, this is exactly right, that they’re friends who have a vibe.
Liz: Yes.
Anika: But their friendship is more important than anything else.
Liz: And maybe one day they’ll be more and that’s fine too, but I don’t know that.
Anika: They were cutest. The fist bump was adorable.
Liz: Also Genesis has stuck to her whole, don’t hook up with anyone during the first six months.
Anika: She’s being very — she’s really not even flirting with anyone.
Liz: No, no, I think she’s actually the only one.
Anika: At the beginning she was flirting with Caleb or flirting with flirting with Caleb. You know what I mean? She was like, yeah, yeah. But then he sort of found someone and she’s just stepped back and doing her thing and doing well.
Liz: Yeah, I think she enjoys flirting and she was like, this guy is super cute. We’re technically not on campus yet, so I’m going to flirt with him. But also she figured out very quickly that he has a lot of baggage. And I don’t think she’s here for that. She’s a very straightforward person.
Anika: She was like, oh, that’s a lot. Nope.
Liz: I really hope that we do have a Genesis episode because she’s the only one who hasn’t had a focus yet. And I hope it involves her dad, the Admiral, because I’m interested. Does she have a mother?
Anika: Right. Exactly.
Liz: She says, my father is Da’Shar. And so I grew up with him. And it’s like, how does your species work? That’s really cool. I want to know more. And what is your relationship with your dad like? And does he approve of you? Does he like you? Is he supportive?
Anika: Right.
Liz: And yeah.
Anika: So many questions. I need all of it. More.
Liz: Yeah. For all we know, she’s been secretly hooking up with the Romulan girl all along. But I don’t think so.
Anika: I would be okay with it, though. They had a vibe, too. So.
Liz: You’re not the only one who’s noticed.
Anika: Delightful. And then we have the adults.
Liz: Yes. Always more fun to ship — apologies to the kids.
Anika: I don’t even understand why, but I’m so into Nahle and Kelrec. And if I was going to write something, I would choose that. And I’m sitting here going, I don’t understand me, because that is not where I thought I would be.
Liz: I feel like because they’re close to equals — Starfleet ranks him, but they’re both chancellors and all of that. And they have similar concerns for their students. And here we see that they have put their differences aside and they are collaborating. And it’s really effective.
But also, at the horrible dinner party in the last episode, Kelrec says that his greatest fear is letting down the people who depend on him. And then this week, he loses a subordinate and a cadet.
Anika: Oh, no.
Liz: He is confronting his worst fear.
Anika: Oh. I think the actual reason that I’m into this is that Kelrec is someone I would never — if you just said, the Chancellor of the War College, I’d be like, I don’t care about that guy.
Liz: Yeah, yeah.
Anika: The idea of the Chancellor of the War College is like, no, that’s not for me. But he’s nothing like what I would think the Chancellor of the War College would be like at all. And every episode, he has more depth and surprises me. Yeah, yeah. And gets something real to happen and to do.
And it’s sort of like Ocam, he’s not the focus, but he’s always there, and he’s more of a character every episode. And I’m just sitting here going, I don’t understand it, but I’m into you.
Liz: No, no. And I think because I identified with him during the Awkward Dinner Party last episode, I’m kind of like, now, are you my guy? Is this — are we a thing? Is this — are you my character? Because that’s unexpected, but okay.
And it’s so interesting thinking about him and Nahle, because all through the dinner party, she’s putting on a funny voice, but she’s being honest, completely honest, and he can’t trust her. And so it’s him getting in his own way. But now he’s confronted his worst fears, and he has to get through this, and he has to get his academy through this. So he’s in a really interesting position.
Anika: Yes.
Liz: I’m also concerned that Kelrec is going to sacrifice himself for his small college cadets by the end of the season.
Anika: That I can definitely see happening.
Liz: Yeah. I actually think that he is much more disposable narratively than Nahle. Yes. But I’m really enjoying having him as a character. Nahle/Vance — no, he’s too insubstantial for her. I don’t dislike him the way I dislike Pike, but I actually think they have the same besetting problem, which is that they’re company men.
Anika: Yeah. At the end when he was trying to tell her that it was his fault and not hers.
Liz: Yeah.
Anika: I liked that.
Liz: That was a good moment.
Anika: But again, I have this elaborate backstory I’ve already given them, where he met her when he was young and he just thinks that she’s the best person in the universe. And I don’t need it to be anything other than that.
Liz: No, no.
Anika: Honestly. And so letting her down — that’s why I really like that moment. Oh my God. Is that he let her down and she’s taking it personally — not that he let her down, but she thinks it’s her fault. And he’s like, it was always me. And I think that he feels it deeply because it’s her. And she was in charge and all of this horrible stuff happened. But because again, he started off on the wrong foot, trying so hard.
Liz: Yeah. Yeah. You remember how he was introduced in Star Trek: Discovery and he was not a particularly sympathetic or likable character. He completely did not trust the Star Trek: Discovery crew. He was very cold to Adira. He’s a very popular character, but does that make him a nice guy?
And I think he tries to be a nice guy and I think he tries to be a good person and a good officer. But I also think one of the things that makes him interesting to me is that on some level, I think he’s aware that he’s a little bit inadequate.
Anika: Yeah.
Liz: That’s why he idealizes Michael and Saru and why he’s so angry with Rayner in season five because Rayner has let him down and he’s like, but I’m not good enough for my job. I really depend on my captains to be good enough for me.
Anika: Yeah. He knows that. And so the reason that he idolizes Michael and Saru and Nahle is because they are still out there trying and doing, and they still believe in the ideals. And he is sort of like — he believes in the ideals. You said he’s a company man, but he believes in the mission of standing up those ideals, but he doesn’t really actually think that they’re real.
Liz: No, no. And that’s really interesting. That’s the sort of pragmatic idealist character that I really enjoy. But also I just think that he’s the wrong man for the job at this time. The same way Rayner became the wrong man for his job because the universe has moved on.
And we’re just in this sort of awkward position where he’s still the most experienced Flag Officer and it’s too early to promote Michael. Saru has stepped out of Starfleet. Honestly, we need this generation of cadets to finish their education and start service so that the generation after them can start being promoted upwards. I think I ship Charles Vance in retirement.
Anika: So he can go be with his wife and daughter.
Liz: Oh, that’s nice. I’m sure he wonders what they look like. Yeah, yeah, yeah.
Anika: Oh, no.
Liz: Give this poor man a break and let Starfleet move on. Again, very Chuck Schumer-coded.
Anika: Just go. Just go. We thank you for your service.
Liz: Yeah. And it’s not even a gerontocracy thing because our leaders are Gen X and Millennials and they have the same problem. They like the idea of having ideals, but they don’t quite know how to do it.
Anika: But you do have one here and I’m going to make you talk about it because I don’t see it at all, but Vance-Braka.
Liz: Okay. Okay. Look, when Vance says that he would like to beat Braka to a pulp, I’m like, Vance, you have never punched a man in your life. Please don’t try to be this dude. But Braka is very, very into it. And he’s like, name the place.
And I’m like, oh, is that your first date, guys? Is that your first date? And I like the idea that something about Braka makes Vance want to move into this hyper-masculine mold that he doesn’t really fit. He’s going to have to send Rayner to do the punching for him. But why is this happening? What is this happening? You boys are performing masculinity so hard that it’s actually kind of sexy.
Anika: All right. I guess I can see that.
Liz: To quote an admiral I’m mildly fond of, cut the manlier-than-thou bullshit, guys.
Anika: Yes. Yeah, no. I just look forward to Braka being dead.
Liz: Oh, yeah.
Anika: Yeah. Sorry. I know. I know I’m not supposed to, but.
Liz: I thought Paul Giamatti’s performance this week was a lot less overwhelming and scenery-chewing than in his first appearance. I thought it had a lot more nuance and tonal layers. But he’s a character I enjoy, but don’t like.
Anika: I do neither. Legitimately, at one point during his scene with Nahle, I was counting. He seemed to have tic-tac-toe on his head. His haircut was X and O. I’m sorry. This is what I mean. I was so — I couldn’t pay attention to what he was saying. All I was doing was staring at his hair and trying to figure out if it was, kills or if it was some kind of symbolic warrior thing. I was sitting there going, why is your hair like that? Instead of paying attention to what he was saying. So again, no shade to Mr. Giamatti. It is not his fault. But I can’t with that character.
Liz: This is clearly not a character that’s vibing for you and that’s totally okay.
Anika: So.
Liz: I do think that Osyraa would wipe the floor with him. And remember in the debate episode, the Doctor has a throwaway line about the power vacuum created by the destruction of the Emerald Chain.
I do think that Nus Braka is only as powerful as he is because Osyraa was killed in season three of Star Trek: Discovery. And that’s a little bit of implicit world building that I really like. Because when we first see him 15 years earlier, he’s like robbing shuttles. And now he has a whole pirate empire. So, yeah.
Anika: Yeah.
Liz: Yeah. I definitely think Osyraa was smarter than him.
Anika: Thank you for listening to Antimatter Pod. You can find our show notes at antimatterpod.com, including links to our social media, credits for our theme music, and transcripts of our episodes. You can follow us on Facebook, Tumblr, Instagram, and Bluesky, all at antimatterpod, and on Mastodon at antimatterpod@tenforward.social.
If you like us, leave a review on Apple Podcasts or wherever you consume your podcasts. The more reviews, the easier it is for new listeners to find us. And tell your friends. Oh, and also, we have a TikTok. It didn’t get added into the outline, but we have a TikTok where you can also follow us. And following us on any and all of the socials is also a great way to help us out.
Join us in a week when we will be discussing the next episode of Star Trek: Starfleet Academy.
Liz: And hopefully no one dies. Except Nus Braka. He’s not going to die in episode seven, but you know. Unless he does. And that’s when we learn that Caleb’s mom is the real big bad. She has been studying physics and they just stole a super weapon.
Anika: So the real reason that Nus Braka is in power is because actually Anisha Mir is making all the decisions. That’s what you’re saying.
Liz: Yeah.
Anika: Okay.
Liz: I mean, he doesn’t seem that smart.